nuance of war? Undoubtedly they will, to a certain extent; but, I flatter myself, by no means to the extent which gentlemen may at first sight be apt to suppose: for I hope, from the situation of the country with which we are engaged in war, that it is not likely we shall be much disturbed on the continent of India; and from our naval superiority, I likewise flatter myself that the interests of the East-India company and the public may be protected from any material injury by depredations of another nature. Mr. Dundas concluded with submitting to the committee 18 resolutions, founded on the preceding statement; which being put, were agreed to without debate. ready to admit, that in its principle it was not to be defended, and must necessarily be repugnant to the feelings of mankind; but such were the circumstances of our West-India colonies, that the continuance even of such a trade for some time longer was absolutely necessary to their existence, and its abolition would be their ruin. On this subject he could speak from his own knowledge, for during the last summer he had visited most of the English islands in the West-Indies, and could take upon him to say, that a great deal of what he had heard in that House respecting the condition of the negroes, appeared to him to be unfounded in fact. It had often been said that by the irregularity of a number of males and females imported into the islands, and the exces sive labour to which they were exposed, very few children were reared, and that this was the reason that it became necessary to import so many Africans every Debate in the Commons on the Abolition of the Slave Trade] Feb. 26. Mr. Wilberforce said, that the important subject of the Slave Trade had been so often and so fully discussed, that he thought it un-year. He declared, that having viewed necessary for him to introduce any argument upon the general question. The motion which he was going to make, was, in his opinion, so much a motion of course, that he did not suppose any serious opposition would be made to it. It was no more than a preliminary to the renewal of the resolutions, which were carried last year by a considerable majority. He then moved, "That this House will on Thursday next resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House to consider of the circumstances of the African Slave Trade." Sir W. Young rose to oppose the motion. He said, that reflection, instead of making him desist from his opposition, had served only to confirm him in his opinion, that the question ought not to be agitated at present, but that it would be prudent to defer the discussion of it to some more proper season. Men's minds, both at home and in the West-Indies, were at this moment too much heated for sober and cool deliberation. In England, and in that House, many exaggerated accounts had been given of the situation and treatment of the negroes, both before their departure from the coast of Africa, and after their arrival in the islands; by these accounts the passions of the House had been excited to decide against the dictates of judgment and sound policy. He said that exaggerations were by no means necessary to render the slave trade odious; for he was [VOL. XXX. ] the negro villages on many estates, he had seen as many children in each, as could be found in any village of the same size in England. This would serve to show that the necessity of importation might be gradually diminished; and the plantations be worked by Creole negroes, instead of Africans. The condition of the slaves had of late been considerably mended; the act for regulating the middle passage had been productive of very happy consequences; and many regulations had been adopted in the colonial assemblies, tending greatly to better the condition of these poor people. He maintained, that in whatever related to the slave trade, this country could not act with efficacy, without the concurrence of the legislature of the islands; those bodies were extremely well disposed to do every thing that could reasonably be required at their hands; and more it would not be prudent to ask. He believed that there were not in his majesty's dominions a set of subjects more loyal than the land owners in the West-India colonies; but he could not answer for the continuance of loyalty, when the men from whom it was expected were to be irritated, outraged in their character, and injured in their property. They had been represented as brutal and unfeeling in their nature; many of them had been bred at the first schools in England, and were known when here to be equal to the most humane or generous of Englishmen. Few men were patient of [2 L] insults; and still fewer disposed to be strongly attached to those who would reduce them to beggary; there was a spirit moving among the planters, to which it would not be prudent to give strength: by unnecessarily pushing forward certain measures at the present moment, they might be driven to what they themselves would wish to avoid. He concluded by moving that the words "Thursday next" be left out, and the words "This day six months" inserted instead thereof. had been found guilty of the perjury; the other had been acquitted; but capt. Kimber's innocence had been established beyond a doubt. Upon the whole view of the case, he was decidedly in favour of the amendment. Mr. W. Smith said, it was not now intended to make any alteration in the resolutions of last session, or to proceed to an immediate abolition of the slave trade; but only to renew those resolutions, and carry them up to the Lords, so that the business might proceed before their lordships. to Mr. Dent was of opinion, that the House ought not to go into a committee on the subject of the slave trade; for though the resolutions passed last year contained various restrictions, the enemies of that trade avowed that their object still was its unqualified abolition. He wondered that gentlemen would endeavour to force upon the West-India planters, prin ciples which, however they might be suited to England, were destructive of the property of the planters. People should be prepared for liberty before they could enjoy it, or make a good use of it. Mr. Buxton seconded the amendment. He said that the House by giving way to the clamours without doors, instead of firmly adhering to principles of wisdom and sound policy, might lay the foundation for the ruin of our happy constitution. Gentlemen ought to be on their guard against a spirit of innovation. Liberty was not now in danger from its arch enemy despotism, but from those, who under the appearance of erecting a temple to liberty, were actually endeavouring to destroy it, to overturn all government, and establish anarchy upon its ruins. In England it once happened, that when the people seemed most clamorous for liberty, the mace of the House of Com- Mr. Fox observed, that the question mons was declared to be a bauble, and was, whether that House would now prothe resolutions of the House dictated by ceed, or at once lay it down as a rule an armed force from without. He that they would do nothing whatever upon warned gentlemen against similar conse- the subject this session, although after a quences if they should show so little firm-long discussion, deliberate resolutions had ness as to be swayed by clamours without doors, raised by persons who, under the idea of universal liberty, would destroy society. been entered into during the last; although the subject had been in agitation for between five and six years; and although they had from that time gone on year after year, and had, as was natural in the cause of justice, reason, and humanity, arrived by discussion nearer and nearer to the point of truth, and from step to step advanced, until at last they came to a determination, that the slave trade from Africa to our colonies and plantations should cease on the 1st of January 1796. That was the object now before the House. He then called the recollec Mr. Cawthorne wished to recall to the recollection of the House the speech of the hon. mover, when the last resolutions on this subject were adopted by the House. Their passions had then been agitated, and their feelings called forth, by details of cruelties at which sensibility was shocked. Had not these stories been believed by the House, he was persuaded they would not have agreed to the resolutions; and they had now been proved to have had no position of the House to the circumstances of tive existence in fact. The hon. gentle man being called upon to mark those persons to whom he chiefly alluded, had particularised capt. Kimber, who had, in consequence, been brought to trial, and honourably acquitted. The two principle witnesses brought forward to support the prosecution, had been committed by the court on suspicion of wilful perjury, in giving evidence on that trial; and they had both lately been tried: one of them the present question, and dismissed all the arguments that had that evening been brought forward on the hardships to which the planters would be exposed on the revival of these resolutions, by observing, that on the bringing forward of the bill by an hon. baronet (Sir William Dolben), for the regulation of the middle passage, these gentlemen and their advocates cried out, that if this bill passed, the trade would be ruined. Had that been true, the House would not be debating the subject now before them as little reliance had the House on the suggestions of these gentlemen with respect to the dangers to the trade from the resolutions of last year; and the question was, whether the House would or would not go into a committee on Thursday upon this subject? It was said that the abolition should be with the concurrence of the legislative body of our colonies, before it could be effectual. Upon what principle it was that we were to anticipate their refusing to concur with us, he knew not; nor, if we had no influence whatever over them, and they were determined to thwart our intentions, how far it might be deemed prudent for us, under such circumstances, to continue our connexion with them, he would not now discuss; but of this he was sure, that the House had power over the trade of this country, and could say under what regulations it should be carried on, and when it should cease, or how long they would suffer by an acknowledged evil. He adverted to the observation, that this trade was to be abolished by menaces, and maintained that nothing at any time, particularly at the present, ought to be more strongly guarded against, than that of holding out to the public an idea that the proceedings of that House were influenced by the dread of menaces, reproaches, or even the loss of popularity; that their votes were the effect of compulsion, and that the moment they dared to do so, they would rescind them. He trusted to God that the vote of every one who assented to the resolutions of last year, was the result of conviction; he trusted, too, that a vote so much to their honour, and which had entitled them to the applause of all Europe, would not now be abandoned. He said he had heard it hinted, that a time of war was improper for the discussion of this subject. He confessed he did not see the propriety of that objection; at all events, if it was an objection, it was such as would be very well discussed in a committee; and then it might be determined whether the circumstances of this war were such as to call upon parliament to continue the evil of the slave trade. He should be of a contrary opinion, and contend, that all the arguments upon the danger of tumult and insurrection, would not apply to the present subject. He therefore should advise the House to regard the present as a very fit time to take this subject up, and to show to all Europe | that the parliament of Great Britain never lost sight of the principles of honour, justice, and humanity; that their government was honourable, that their pledge was faithfully adhered to, that while they declared they detested anarchy and confusion, they also loved the principles of real liberty, that they sincerely wished for the happiness of mankind, and revered the rights of nature. Mr. Fox then observed, that if there were any objections to the late resolutions in any particular part, such objection would come regularly be fore the committee on Thursday, and could then be argued; for as to the danger of agitating it, he confessed he differed entirely from those who expressed their apprehensions upon that subject; or, if there was any danger in that respect, it must arise from its not being agitated while there was a difference of opinion; agitation was necessary to set that difference at rest. Indeed, he once hoped that the House would not now have had to debate the question at all, and that the abolition would by this time have passed into a law. He should not now pretend to anticipate the discussion of the House of Lords; he hoped, that their decision would be agreeable to the principles of justice and humanity; in the mean time, the House of Commons should not slacken its efforts. If the course of the discussion in the other House should lead to such a length, or should take a turn that would render hopeless the thought of its coming to a conclusion this session, then he should advise the bringing forward of some other measure that might give efficacy to the resolutions, which had for their object the immediate regulation of the trade, independent of the total abolition in the year 1796. Mr. Fox next took notice of the trial of captain Kimber, on which so much stress had been laid. He said he could have wished that it had not been alluded to at all, because it was not regularly before the House; but, as it had been alluded to, he would only say, in the most constitutional language he could, that as captain Kimber had been acquitted, he hoped and trusted that he was innocent, and, as Mr. Devereux was acquitted also, he hoped and trusted that he was innocent; but he believed there were none in that House who voted for the resolutions last year solely upon the representation of the subject which brought captain Kimber upon his trial; if there were, let such person vote, if he thought proper, against the resolutions in the committee upon this occasion; at all events, the House had no reason for refusing to go into the subject this session. Upon the point of humanity, which had been so much urged on a former occasion in favour of the WestIndia planters, he must do the hon. gentleman who originated this subject in that House the justice to say, that he had always allowed to these observations their full force, and that he had admitted the truth of many specific acts mentioned in support of the humanity of these planters; at the same time, Mr. Fox said, he did not see any thing in the nature of the traffic of these planters, or any thing in the spirit of slavery, to suppose that those who deal in it surpass their fellow creatures in the offices of tenderness and humanity, nor any thing in the nature of absolute power that was likely to exempt its possessors from the common frailties of our species; or if these gentlemen had these feelings in so eminent a degree, these resolutions were so far favourable to them, as to set them free from a station so obnoxious. To return to the point more immediately before the House, he complained of an evil and an abuse which he maintained it was practical to remove, and as he had before hinted, if the proceedings of another place should be such as not to give satisfaction, that they would be removed, and that the first resolution for abolition in 1796, should pass this session, then that House should substitute such other remedies as might meet their ideas upon the regulation of the trade between this time and the period of final abolition. Until these points should have been fairly canvassed by argument, he trusted that the House would not pursue a step so disreputable to its own honour and dignity, so dissatisfactory to the public in general, as to relinquish their former opinion, or, in other words, to tell the world at large, there was no sincerity in their declaration on a former day, and that they had completely given up even the gradual abolition of the slave trade, and that they never would resolve upon that measure at this or any other period. Mr. Pitt hoped there would be no difficulty in revoting the propositions voted last year. By renewing the resolutions of last session, and sending them up to the Lords, no member of the House was restricted from proposing such other measures, as the delay in the other House might seem to call for. If, for instance, Impeachment of Mr. Hastings-Managers Conduct approved.] Feb. 28. Mr. Burke, one of the members appointed by the House for managing the trial of the impeachment now depending against Warren Hastings, esq. informed the House, that, the Lords having met this day (before his majesty came to the House of Peers) in the chamber of parliament, precisely at twelve o'clock, which is much earlier than their lordships have usually assembled for the purpose of going into Westminster-hall, their lordships, without having given any intimation to this House of their intention to make this alteration in the time of their proceeding, went at about half an hour after twelve o'clock into Wesminster-hall, before a sufficient number of members of this House were assembled for the purpose of enabling Mr. Speaker to take the chair-That, under these circumstances, he (Mr. Burke) and such of the other managers as were present in this House, thought it their duty to appear in the place appointed for the managers in Westminster-hall, to be ready to go on with the trial, without waiting for the usual proceedings of this House on the days appointed for the trial, and that the managers did accordingly appear in Westminster-hall and the trial proceeded. And Mr. Burke desired to submit his conduct, and that of the other managers upon this occasion, to the judgment of the House. The Speaker took a view of the proceed ings of the House and cleared himself, $ and all its members, and also the managers, from any imputation of delay in general with regard to their attendance on the trial of Mr. Hastings. Resolved nem.con. "That under the circumstances above mentioned, this House doth highly approve of the conduct of the right hon. Edmund Burke, and the other managers, for having taken such steps as enabled the Commons to proceed on the trial of the said impeachment. Report from the Committee to consider of Means for expediting Mr. Hastings's Trial.] Major Maitland reported from the committee who were appointed to consider of means for expediting the trial of the impeachment now depending against Warren Hastings, esq. and to report the same to the House; that the committee had considered the matter to them referred, and had directed him to report the same to the House; and he read the report in his place, as follows: "Your Committee, in considering the causes which may have tended to lengthen the duration of the trial of the said Warren Hastings, have not thought themselves authorized to suggest any interference in the judicial proceeding on that impeachment: therefore although your Committee may have conceived that arrangements might be made which would prevent the trial from being suspended during a very considerable part of the session, which has hitherto been the case, yet they have thought it proper to abstain from submitting to the House any proposition upon that head. "Your Committee have farther considered, whether any arrangement could be made by the managers, or by the counsel for Mr. Hastings, which might tend to bring the impeachment to a shorter issue; but having duly considered this part of the subject, they acknowledge that no measure has occurred to them for this purpose. "Your Committee have therefore limited themselves to the consideration of two points, which they have conceived may tend to expedite the trial of this impeachment. "First, the procuring a certain attendance in this House at the hour at which it is to meet on the days of the trial. "Secondly, the means of obtaining a greater number of days for the trial, than has hitherto been granted in any one session of parliament. "Your Committee do not find that, du ring the whole period of the trial, the House of Lords have often had occasion to wait for this House previous to their going into Westminster-Hall; but they are obliged to admit, that there has been in some degree a remissness in the attendance in this House, which has sometimes prevented the Speaker from taking the chair at the hour when the members ought to have attended. "Your Committee have not been able to suggest any measure which could in itself compel a more exact attendance in this House on the days of the trial, but they apprehend that if the House should think fit to follow the precedent in the case of the earl of Strafford, this inconvenience would be removed. "Your Committee find, that the mode of proceeding at that impeachment (as appears by the journal of the 22nd of March 1640) was, for this House to meet as a committee in Westminster-Hall, without first coming into the House of Commons. "Your Committee conceive, that the adoption of this mode would certainly produce the effect of preventing any delay on the part of this House, and the probable effect of inducing all other persons concerned to be punctual at the hour appointed, "Your Committee are aware that an objection has been stated against the propriety of adopting this precedent in the present instance, as it does not appear to have been followed in other cases; but in those cases it may not have been necessary: it has also been stated, that it is of importance that the House should be ready during the time of the trial, for the purpose of advising the managers, should question occur which they, in their judgment, might think fit to refer to the conyour Comsideration of the House; but mittee observing that no such instance has hitherto occurred, and thinking that if such a circumstance had occurred, the discussion of any such question in the House could not have taken place immediately, they apprehend there is not great weight in this observation. "Your Committee do not conceive that an attendance of more than five hours in a day, when that is really given, would be either in itself advisable or proper to be requested; but they cannot help being impressed with the propriety and expediency of obtaining more days in the week for the carrying on the impeachment, so that, if possible, it may be brought to a |
