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great moneyed body of men, much better | under the control of government. In a qualified than the legislature could pos- constitutional view, therefore, the present sibly be, to ascertain the solvency of appeared to him a measure exceedingly merchants and the value of goods. He alarming to the freedom of Englishmen ; considered this as the introduction of a and one which ought, unless fully vindinew system, which ought to be very se- cated, to be resisted. The commercial riously examined, because it might lead ought never to be involved or blended to consequences the most alarming. with the legislative or executive authoThere were two points of view in which rity. He had always understood, that he thought it ought to be placed before the spirit of commerce was more free and the House, namely, as it might affect the enterprising when unfettered with the public purse, and as it might affect the connexion now described; and he im constitution. The public were to be plored the House to pause before they called upon to lend five millions of money sanctioned a system unknown to our conto the traders and manufacturers upon the stitution, and which might subvert our security of their goods and property. liberties. If the measure were thought Might not the public be exposed to lose laudable by government, why did not the a great part of that sum by advancing it commercial interests assist each other, upon articles, the value of which govern- rather than surrender their freedom to ment did not sufficiently understand to be those in power? On these grounds; he able to ascertain how much might be trusted that the system was to be merely safely lent upon them, or to persons with temporary, and that the most effectual whose circumstances it had not the means guard would be placed round it, to preof being acquainted? The bank of Eng-vent it from being abused, and from enland was in every respect better qualified dangering the very thing it was intended than government for such a task; and it to support. was not a very favourable symptom, that the bank had declined granting the aid to public credit, which was now solicited from parliament; for it would seem as if the persons who were to be assisted were not in such circumstances as would make it safe for government to advance money to them. It was the interest of the bank to discount good bills, and when it refused to do it, one might well fear that the owners of those bills were not considered by the bank as labouring only under a temporary embarrassment. When he considered the new system in the light in which it would affect the constitution, he felt so serious an alarm, that nothing could possibly reconcile him to it, but a conviction that it was to exist only for a short period, and not to be drawn into a precedent. No author that he had ever read had proposed any system like that now suggested; but perhaps he might hear it justified either by some theory or experiment of which he was as yet ignorant. The measure proposed was in his opinion dangerous to the constitution. It was investing government with the whole commercial influence of this country. He might entertain very high sentiments of the gentlemen about to be appointed as commissioners, but he thought the power which they were likely to possess would endanger the liberties of their fellow-subjects, more especially when they acted

Mr. Pitt said, that the subject was undoubtedly important, and he wished the real extent of the danger to be felt, with the view of leading to an effectual remedy. He was happy to say, that he had the utmost confidence that an expeditious and effectual remedy might be applied. On some occasions the urgency of particular instances must outweigh general principles, and the present was of that kind. It had been said, that trade best flourished when disjoined from and unconnected with government; but it ought here to be distinguished, that no control over the operations of trade was proposed, but only that, by a temporary vance, the credit of the merchant might be supported, and the means afforded him of carrying on his own schemes in his own way; nor was any facility afforded to rash or wanton speculations. He concluded with again urging the necessity of dispatch.

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Mr. Grey admitted, that if the measure was at all advisable, much of its efficacy would probably depend on the dispatch with which it should be carried through; but as the report was not yet printed, he begged leave to put it to the right hon gentleman, whether it was not rather too early to take it into consideration to-morrow. He would take that opportunity of giving his opinion strongly against the proposal, as creating a new species of in

fluence. If relief was to be afforded, this did not appear to him to be the proper means of giving it. Why did not the bank interfere? Was it that they thought it unsafe to do so? And, if so, was government to do what the bank did not think safe to do? He was, however, more inclined to believe, that, from particular circumstances the bank might not be able to afford it, probably from having too great a load of exchequer bills already; and, if that was the case, would it not be better to pay off part of these exchequer bills?

Mr. Montagu thought the question was not, whether the relief proposed was unobjectionable in all its parts; but whether some mode of relief was not absolutely necessary, and this the best that could be devised? He was therefore in favour of the proposition.

Mr. S. Thornton said, he was a member of the committee, who were unanimous in opinion as to the propriety of the measure, and as to its efficacy, if carried through with dispatch. Two hon. gentlemen had said, that it was the duty of the bank to have interfered. The bank had stepped forward in the mode of discount; but it never had been their custom to advance money on mortgages, or on the species of security which was now pointed out; not from any doubt of the security, but because they found an ample demand for their money in the way of discounts.

The motion was then agreed to.

April 30. The House having resolved itself into a committee of the whole House upon the said Report,

Mr. Pitt said, that after the preliminary observations he had made last night, he should not enter into any argument; but, referring to the report on the table, which he trusted gentlemen had carefully considered, should move, "That his majesty be enabled to direct exchequer bills to the amount of five millions, to be issued to commissioners, to be by them advanced, under certain regulations and restrictions, for the assistance and accommodation of such persons as shall be desirous of receiving the same, on due security being given for the re-payment of the sum so advanced, within a time to be limited."

Mr. Francis asked the chancellor of the exchequer, for what reason the directors of the bank of England had not been invited to undertake the management and

distribution of the relief proposed to be given to the commerce and credit of individuals, why it had not been formally proposed to them to carry into execution a measure, with the objects of which they had a necessary connexion, and must of course possess information superior to any that could be found in a board of commissioners newly appointed by parlia ment? The business, proposed to be done by the commissioners, was in effect what the bank was now doing every day, and which they would only be called upon to perform with greater means and to a greater extent. If they accepted the trust, there could be no doubt of their performing it safely for themselves, and effectually for the public. If they refused it, they would of course assign their reasons; and if those reasons were valid and sufficient, they would be infinitely stronger on the part of government, not to undertake a task, which the bank had refused. If the directors of the bank should allege, that their funds were insufficient, or that they had already exerted their own means, as far as they could with safety or propriety, that objection would be removed by putting into their hands the exchequer bills, which were to be entrusted to the commis. sioners, and leaving it to them to circulate and distribute them, in whatever way they might think most advantageous to the commercial credit of the country.

Mr. Pitt said, that from the nature of the business the bank had declined interfering, because the species of the security to be given was not such as the bank had been accustomed to receive. The measure now proposed was of a temporary nature. The practice of the bank upon discount was permanent. The bank took securities for what business they transacted in this way at two months. The security to be given here was not determinable at that time, and the deposit was of a nature which the bank had not been accustomed to act upon.

Mr. M. A. Taylor said, that unless the plan which should be brought forward had good regulations against patronage, he should think himself bound to give it his negative. As to the observation, that the bank discounted bills only at two months, he did not see why the bank should not do so still, and when these bills became due, renew them for the same length of time. This they might continue as long as they were satisfied with the

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security. With respect to the relief proposed by the present plan, he had conversed with gentlemen who were qualified to judge upon this subject, and they laughed at the idea of considering it as any thing like a solid assistance to those who now were, and might hereafter, be, in want of aid in consequence of the embarrassment of commercial credit. He wished with all his heart that the credit of the country might be supported; it was the interest of all that it should; but he did not think that would be done by putting all the merchants under the nod of the minister; which he feared would be the case if this plan was to be under the control of commissioners of the minister's nomination. Unless he could see better grounds to proceed upon than those stated in the report, he should not be able to give his assent to the measure now proposed. He believed in his conscience that it was, by mercantile men, considered as absurd and useless.

Mr. Alderman Curtis said, he could aver, that, so far from laughing at, the mercantile interest approved of the measure, and he, for his part, had not the smallest doubt of its producing the happiest effects.

Mr. Chiswell said, he had connexions with mercantile men, and he could, in the most positive manner, declare, that the measure, so far from being laughed at, was looked up to with hope and approbation. As a proof of this, he mentioned the effect that the bare report had on the price of stocks.

Mr. Alderman Anderson said, that the measure proposed was of that kind, that, if not granted, the most serious mischief's would follow. The objection against the distribution by commissioners was futile; for they had not the discretionary power to refuse the loan, on producing proper security. He positively denied the custom of renewing bills by the bank, for when it appeared for the sake of raising money, it was never granted.

Mr. Fox did not wish to trouble the committee much at length. The subject was such, that he hardly knew how to speak at all upon it, and the more so, as he had considerable doubts upon the expediency of the remedy, supposing the principle of the proposed measure to be unobjectionable. With regard to the necessity of aiding the public credit at the present humiliating moment, there was not any room for difference of opi

nion. The state of public credit was matter of lamentation. Humiliating and lamentable it must be; for the very circumstance of that House being in a committeee to consider of means to aid the commercial credit of the nation was decided evidence of that fact; and he must add, that the whole taken into consideration, we were surrounded by circumstances of a dangerous nature. We were told, that, in point of fact, there was no real danger, for that the distress was merely temporary, and that the remedy proposed would be fully adequate to its removal. He wished to God that might turn out to be true; but at the same time it was not quite satisfactory to see that government were obliged to take up what the bank of England would not touch. The answer to this was, that the bank of England was not in the habit of entering on a speculation of this nature, and that it would not be consistent with the regularity of their proceedings to do so at this moment. Was there any thing so peculiarly regular and precedented in the legislature taking up the measure, that taught gentlemen there was no real danger? If the bank of England, accustomed as they were to commercial dealings, thought it a scheme upon which it was not prudent to adventure, how did gentlemen arrive at all at the conclusion that there was no danger to the public in such an adventure? If it was not the habit of the bank to advance money upon a certain species of security, he would say, neither had it ever yet been the habit of the public to advance their money upon that security; and that if there was to be any innovation in the affairs of commerce, it was better that it should be made by the bank than by the public.But, it seemed, the bank had been applied to in vain upon this occasion. What was the reason that the bank had been applied to in vain? He feared the reason why that application was unsuccessful would not be very likely to induce the public to adopt the measure. These reflections compelled him to entertain doubts upon the prudence of the measure. But, it was again said, that the bank had already issued money enough upon discount. If that was the case, he was afraid the public could not be much benefited by issuing exchequer bills for five millions more, and that means should rather be devised for paying off those in the market. He did not say that his opinion upon this

763] subject was direct, but he could not help | yet he did not see how this plan would suggesting his doubts; he should be very answer the purpose for which it was inglad to be answered by arguments, and tended. He felt also another difficulty, he declared upon his word that he should and that arose from a motive of delicacy, be happy in hearing his observations re- from the circumstance of having had nofuted. He could not help again observ- thing to do with entering into the present ing, that the bank must have some strong war,-the cause, in his opinion, of all our reasons for refusing to discount in the calamities; having on the contrary, done usual way; for, generally speaking, they every thing in his power to prevent it, so were pretty ready to discount when they he did not wish to be represented as a thought they could do so with safety, for person not feeling the calamity, because that was well understood to be for their he had not contributed to produce it. A interest; if that was the case in general, very important part of the question rehow much more so was it on the present mained; he meant the constitutional point occasion? Who could be more inte- that would be involved in it; a matter in rested in the general credit of the com- itself of the highest importance. How merce of the country than the bank of was government to take what related to England? What, then, must be the con- commercial dealings into its hands, withclusion of a man of common sense when out establishing a precedent of the most such a body of men refused to discount? dangerous and alarming nature, and withWhat must they think of the situation of out creating a general timidity in comthe country? These points pressing upon mercial men with regard to the fate of his mind, he owned he should not be their future speculations? How were the sorry to hear that the subject went no committee sure that this would not damp farther that night. Again, he must ob- the ardour of commerce, and shake the serve, the bank refused all share in this general principle, which was the life of business for one of two reasons; either commerce itself, the control which every that the commisthat they did not like the security that man had over his own property? How was to be offered to them, or that they were they sure had already so far employed their money sioners, when appointed, would be free as not to be able to afford the relief from partiality, prejudice, favour, and afwanted. If the first was the reason, there fection, and all the weaknesses which would be a difficulty indeed in the way of were common to our nature? And how the present measure. The commissioners, could it be determined that these comwhoever they were, could not be more missioners would receive the security of conversant in commerce than the gen- one whose way of thinking upon politics tlemen who had the management of the might be agreable to the minister, and affairs of the bank of England, and there- refuse an equally good security from a fore the plan could not have a very flat-person of a contrary way of thinking? tering prospect of its issue. If the bank Was not this opening a door to the most hesitated, by what mode of reasoning was unconstitutional and dangerous patronit that the commissioners should not hesi- age? Good God! did the committee see tate; and in this view he thought himself, the extent of the power which this might as one of the trustees of the interests of give to the executive government?-a If the power which it was the first duty of that the public, bound to hesitate. other reason was allowed, namely, that House jealously to watch. Before, therethe bank had already issued all it could fore, he voted for such a measure, he afford, he could not see the ultimate ad- ought to see something like the probable vantage to the public credit by the issu- effect of it. He ought to give power of ing exchequer bills. He must repeat, this nature with a timorous and relucthat he spoke upon these points with tant mind. He ought to feel the danger doubts, which he should take pleasure in to which his country was exposed in the having removed, and grief in having con- possible abuse of such a power. He firmed, and he must really say he did not ought to know something of the proposed not know what to do. He knew not how end before he consented to such a begin. to say that he would not agree that the ning. He repeated, that although he was committee should proceed upon this sub-not in the least degree accessary to the ject, for the purpose of supporting the commencement of this calamitous war, commercial credit of the kingdom, and to yet he should be glad to be instrumental remove the calamity of the country; and in bringing it to a conclusion as speedily

as could be effected with due regard to the honour of this country. He blamed not the majority on that occasion, but gloried in being one of the minority. He wished to see the hour when this destructive measure was at an end, for then commercial credit would return, and with it commercial enterprise and vigour.

Mr. Secretary Dundas begged leave to enter his protest against any declaration that the present embarrassment of the merchants and manufacturers, was the effect of the poverty of the country. He considered it as precisely the reverse, and would maintain, however odd it might sound, that it was occasioned by the uncommon prosperity of the nation; a prosperity which had induced some individuals to push their speculations beyond the extent of their own private capitals, but by no means beyond the capital of the nation. To call upon the bank of England to deviate from that line of conduct which it had proposed to itself and under which it had flourished, he deemed by no means prudent. The bank discounted upon certain securities; but discounted on the principle of having its returns in two months. The measure now proposed admitted of a more extended period for repayment, and was entirely different from what was the usage of that corporation. In a constitutional point of view, he admitted that the measure was by no means desirable, but as situations must ever occur, in which extraordinary remedies must be applied to extraordinary necessities, he left it to the judgment of the House, whether this was not particularly so. He ridiculed the idea of any partiality being exercised by the persons appointed by parliament, for executing this trust. For himself, he declared, that he was not acquainted with the name of any one who might be nominated; but he should think the country had arrived, indeed, at a very alarming degree of depravity, if twenty gentlemen could not be found, who would not perform fairly, upon oath, the functions of this commission, without regarding whether the persons who applied to them appeared in red or yellow capesin blue and buff, or any other colour.

Mr. S. Thornton did not think that the war, however it might partially affect the public credit, had contributed so much to the present stagnation as the great circulation of paper, and the extension of manufactures. With regard to

the bank, he was authorized to say, that, though they were not desirous of being the agents of government, in the proposed distribution, they had come forward on the occasion with unexampled liberality, and had been so industrious in discounting bills, that, within the last fortnight, they had increased the number of their clerks, and were also extending their buildings. So much were they satisfied with this measure, and so anxious to promote its objects, that they were willing to spare two or three of their most experienced members to give all the assistance in their power to forward the execution of it.

After some further conversation, the Resolution was agreed to. On the following day it was reported to the House, and a bill was brought in pursuant thereto. On the 3d of May the bill was committed. Much discussion accordingly took place on the various provisions of the bill. The commissioners, under whose direction the whole plan was ordered to be carried on, were lord Sheffield, sir Grey Cooper, Mr. Pulteney, Mr. Chiswell, sir John Sinclair, Mr. Alderman Anderson, Mr. R. Smith, Mr. Bosanquet, Mr. T. Boddington, Mr. Manning, Mr. Whitmore, Mr. Baring, Mr. Hartley, Mr. Raikes, Mr. Forster, Mr. Darrel, Mr. C. Grant, Mr. G. Innes, Mr. Harman, and Mr. Brogden. The places where the goods were to be deposited, as a security under this bill, for the aid to be given, were London, Bristol, Hull, Liverpool, Glasgow, and Leith.

Scotch Roman Catholic Relief Bill.] April 23. The House of Commons resolved itself into a committee, to take into consideration a motion made yesterday by the lord advocate of Scotland, for granting Relief in certain cases to such of his majesty's subjects in Scotland, as profess the Roman Catholic religion.

The Lord Advocate of Scotland observed, that the Roman Catholics of Scotland laboured under many hardships and disabilities on account of their adherence to their religion. By one law an oath, called a formula, or solemn declaration, was imposed upon them, which they could not take without renouncing the religion they professed; and if they refused to take it, their nearest protestant relation might deprive them of their estates. He observed, that it was repugnant to justice and humanity, that a subject not convicted

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