which lead to, and are inseparable from, the administration of public justice. I repeat, Sir, it is my sincere and earnest wish, that the house should ascertain the particular offices which may be paid beyond the duties annexed to them, and beyond the trust and responsibility which attach to them. But until that great and necessary measure takes place, you cannot proceed to retrench or to lop off.

I must once more entreat the attention of the house to the nature of the honourable gentleman's motion, and to the time in which it is proposed. The tendency of it is completely included in the instruction of which I have already given a general statement, and which I have given notice I should move for the direction of the committee, and it is brought forward at the very moment when a general investigation is set on foot with respect to the whole finance of the country, and with a view of ascertaining a plan for controlling the public expenditure. If therefore, Sir, it should be the opinion of the house to refer to the committee the subject of the honourable gentleman's motion, as part of the general inquiry with which it was. intended they should be entrusted, it would be an easy matter, if the words of the instruction were thought too general, to introduce particular terms that might peculiarly specify it.

On these grounds I oppose the motion, convinced as I am, that were I to agree to it, the public could derive no benefit from it, and that I myself should become a party in the disappointment, and in the delusion of the people: I therefore move the previous question.

March 23, 1797.

MR. Fox, in pursuance of a previous notice, this day submitted to the House the following resolution:

"That an humble address be presented to his Majesty, that his Majesty will be graciously pleased to take into his royal consideration the disturbed state of his kingdom of Ireland, and to adopt such healing and lenient measures as may appear to his Majesty's wisdom best calculated to restore tranquillity, and to conciliate the affections of all descriptions of his Majesty's subjects in that kingdom to his Majesty's person and government."

The motion being seconded by Sir Francis Burdett, Mr. PITT rose:

Sir-However generally the terms of the motion of the right honourable gentlemen are couched, for an address to his Majes ty, it is utterly impossible for any man' to form his judgment on the merits of it, unless by proceeding to separate it from the va rious and collateral topics which he has thought proper to introduce, and without which the proposed address would, in reali ty, be indistinct and unnecessary. He has, in the early part of his speech, developed a subject to which I most seriously desire to call the attention of the house. The right honourable gentleman, who has made a speech on the whole system of the Irish legislature, who has argued at large upon the principles and frame of it, who has considered in a very ample manner its aptitude to make laws, and who has gone at length into the disposi tion of the people, with respect to the practical effect of these laws, began by reminding us, when he stated to the house the discontents now existing in Ireland, that it was necessary to have recourse to that period when we recognized and fully established the complete independence of the Irish legislature, as it might be known whether we gave that independence as a boon or a right -whether that measure was a concession to Ireland. There is one certain point in which we must all coincide by having re course to that period, and the truth of which the right honour. able gentleman himself cannot controvert-that whether the establishment of the independence of Ireland was a concession or a

recognition on our part, it was putting Ireland in the absolute possession of independence in point of fact. He had himself, on former occasions, fully admitted and acknowledged that important truth, and to oppose it would tend to shake the authority of the parliament of Great Britain.

But, Sir, I beg leave to ask in what parliament of Ireland was it that he recognized the independence of the legislature of that country, and the necessity of which he then urged with so much force? Was it one formed on a more extensive frame than that which now exists? Did it include more persons attach. ed to the Roman catholic interest of Ireland than it does now, or was it more calculated to give satisfaction at a time when con. cessions were not made in their favour, than now when such measures have actually taken place? Yet that very parliament, which existed at the period to which the right honourable gentleman has thought proper to have recourse, was conceived to be the national source of the most valuable blessings to Ireland. Surely he did not mean to say that, when he himself pressed forward in establishing the independence of Ireland, he was then only putting the people of that country in possession of a delusion, and that the legislature was incapable of conveying to the inhabitants of the country the enjoyment of practical liberty. The right honourable gentleman will not therefore now maintain, that, in the year 1782, he considered the parliament of Ireland so extremely defective in its frame and principles, that the nation could receive no essential benefit from the line of conduct then pursued by it; and if he will not say that, (and I am perfectly convinced he cannot say what would necessarily expose him to the charge of the most glaring inconsistency,) I am naturally leḍ to inquire upon what ground it now happens, that we are to come this day to vote an address for an alteration in the frame of that parliament, the superintendance of which we have entirely put out of our control by the recommendation of the right honour. able gentleman, and the independence of which we have unequivocally acknowledged? By what means will he make it pear, that, having renounced all power over the legislature of

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Ireland, baving formally abdicated the privilege which might have once existed, of enforcing any internal regulation in that country, having solemnly divested ourselves of all right, of whatever nature that right may have been, to make laws in any respect for Ireland; I say, Sir, by what particular means will he undertake to make it appear that it now remains for us to declare, what laws shall affect that country, and to dictate the precise modifications which he proposes to take place in the fixed princi. ples of the legislature itself? In the year 1782, having given to Ireland a distinct and independent legislature, having, with every solid testimony of good faith, laid aside all pretensions to interference in the internal concerns of the nation, can any person now point out a subject to which Ireland should look with such well founded jealousy, as the subject presented to the consideration of the house by the right honourable gentleman's motion ? I am ready to admit, that the address, proposed as it is, does not exactly say so; but, Sir, it conveys too much by implication, not to call for the attention of the house in a serious manner. Let us for a moment compare it with the speech of the mover, and if we proceed upon that just and reasonable ground, to which the right honourable gentleman himself can have no objection, as his speech forms the ground-work of his motion, it will in that case be found to convey what ought not to be stated in general terms, but expressed clearly and fairly.

The motion submitted to the house is, Sir, if I recollect right, for an address to his Majesty, that he will be pleased to take into his gracious consideration the present disturbed state of Ireland, and to adopt such healing and lenient measures as may restore it to tranquillity. But what can be the effect of such an address? Will it be maintained that the situation of Ireland has not been the frequent subject of his Majesty's thoughts? Can it with the shadow of propriety be urged, that the royal mind has been at any time exempt from those considerations which may best promote the happiness of his people? What then can be the object of the address? It proposes to his Majesty the propriety of adopting measures for the restoration of the tranquillity of his

subjects of Ireland. But such, Sir, must be his Majesty's dis position: and to what purpose will our advice tend? No man can presume to say, that such is not the firm desire, as it most undoubtedly is the interest, of the executive government. During what part of his Majesty's reign has there appeared any mark of neglect to the interests of the people of Ireland? On the contrary, Sir, the most solid testimonies have been given of the sincerity of his intentions to promote the happiness of that. country, not by promises, not by declarations, but by deeds and acts which have been received with grateful satisfaction by the whole nation. The most minute attention has been paid to the commerce, to the agriculture, to the manufactures of the country; and what was at the time considered as the most valu able measure, the independence of the legislature was recognized beyond a possibility of doubt. The whole has been one conti nued succession of concessions, and to such an extent, that during the present reign, they have exceeded all the preceding ones put together since the revolution.

But, Sir, if further concessions are demanded, if the object of the address consists in soliciting these concessions, I must contend,, that while it does not precisely point out the particular measures, which are to be adopted, it is, in the general state in which it now stands, nugatory and superfluous. If, on the other hand, the address is compared with the right honourable gen. tleman's speech, which indeed must be viewed as the chief ground of the motion, I maintain that it would be absurd and impossible to express propositions any way conformable to the sentiments delivered in the course of that speech. In the first place, let us consider them politically. If they mean, that the lord lieutenant of Ireland is accountable for any misconduct during his administration of public affairs there, as the servant of the crown, and it shall be urged that the control of abuses of that kind remains with this country, I answer to that-granted, If in another point of view they go, as was in a certain degree, conveyed by the honourable baronet who seconded the motion, to arraign his Majesty's ministers for gross errors and crimes