he believed that it put a final end to every profpect of union. Gentlemen talked of the moderation of their conduct, of their withes for union, of their temper, forbearance and candour, while at the fame time they pufhed fo harth a queflion as this, at fuch an hour. He had objected to their previous measures becaufe he confidered thein as hoftile to the. end which they profeffed to have in view; and this he confidered as the completion of the Refolutions they had already paffed. He faid he had laboured moft ftrenuously for an union. He had exerted every nerve and all his influence to bring it about. He withed to Heaven that the Refolutions had been of another complexion, and more moderate than they were. He faid that gentlemen ought at least to poftpone the queflion. They ought not to put union out of our reach, and he thought that this Addrefs would do it effectually.

Mr. Fox faid, that as they complained that the prefent motion was likely to be a bar to union, and that it would be wife at leaft to poftpone it, he, who had through the whole of this molt alarming conteft fhewn himfelf to be a friend to moderation, would inform them, that if the right honourable gentleman, or the learned gentleman, or any other Member in the immediate friendship and confidence of the Minifter, would rife and fay, that by the poltponement of the motion til Monday the fmalleft particle of bencfit could arife, or that thereby any thing like a promotion of union might be obtained, he would moift chearfully entreat the Houfe for leave to withdraw his motion.

Lord North faid, that Mr. Dundas had declared, that the carrying an Address to the Throne would be the means of putting an entire end to the hopes of union; but when Mr. Fox offered, that if he or any other gentleman would rife and fay, that by putting it off till Monday any thing like union might be obtained, or any fort of advantage, the learned gentleman fat ftill. It was therefore evident, he did not think that the paffing of the Addrefs that night did put any further bar to union than the Refolutions already paffed had done. He defired it to be fo understood.

He

Mr. H. Dundas faid, he did not think there could be any great difference between moving it to-night and on Monday. could not prefumie to pledge himfelf to the bringing about an union. After feeing that the many gentlemen of independence who had undertaken to promote union, had been fo defective and unfuccefsful in their meafures, he could not prefume to venture on that olio which fo many abler cooks had fpoiled.

Mr. Chancellor Pitt faid, that without entering at all into the argument whether the poftponement of the motion till Monday could promote an union, or whether the

About a quarter before five o'clock, the Minitter having jutt come down to the Houfe, Mr. Fox moved that the order of the day fhould be read, which was for taking into confideration his Majefty's Anfwer to an Addrefs of the Houfe for the removal of Minifters. This having been done,

Mr. Fox ftood up, and begged the Houfe might allow him to preface what he now deemed it his indifpenfible duty to fay, with a fhort review of thofe peculiar circumftances in which the Houfe of Commons, the people of England, and the conftitution of the country, were all inevitably placed by his Majeity's late Answer to the Addrefs of his Commons. He connected all these particulars into one view, becaufe they were ail formed to stand or fail together. It was not in the wit or machination of man to diffever them for a moment, and whoever made the attempt would be taught from the iffue that it was nugatory and chimerical.

He went at large into the hiftory and management of the Miniftry, and traced every ftep of their conduct in office as all tending to the difgrace of the Houfe of Commons, as bearing uniformly to that point, and as utterly inexplicable on any other fuppofition. Why had not Minifters diffolved the Parliament? Was not this an object in which they refted many of their hopes on the commencement of their official exiftence? The temporary inconveniences which they apprehended were the only reafons on which they had kept together. The means on which they had come in, and by which they had intended to govern the country, were confequently objects of fufpicion and dislike.

Having gone over an infinite variety of topics, he obferved, that he had always ftated it as his opinion, that the Houfe could advife the removal of Ministers without giving their reafons. This was a moft important queftion; but he dreaded the trial of it, as the confequence might be dreadful.

It

It ought however to appear to the House and the Public what the real debate was, and on what it hinged. There was nothing in it perfonal. The House was the object to be degraded, and there was not another step neceffary to complete the catastrophe of the conftitution.

He had difcuffed the fubject difpaffionately, as men's minds were already but too much fermented to judge of it coolly. He knew and maintained the power of the Houfe of Commons; but, as the country was circumstanced, he still thought intermediate meafures mot eligible. These he always had, and ever would prefer. His intention therefore was to move an Address, in which no reference was made to any thing which might appear ungracious, and fuitable acknowledgments returned for whatever, in any part of it, would bear a favourable interpretation. This talk had devolved on him, not becaufe many on his fide of the House were not equal to the task, or perhaps from perfonal circumstances might not have done it with more delicacy and propriety; but the train in which he had thought on the fubject, and the conftant attention he had given it, beides the fatisfaction of avowing his ideas fairly and openly, as well as the large fhare he had hitherto taken in the debate, were all motives with him for ftanding forward in the bufinefs. He had used as much delicacy to Minifters as he thought confiftent with his duty, while the probability of fome of them acting as his colleagues in office remained. That probability, however, in his opinion, now ceafed, and he faw nothing for the future to forbid his giving way to thofe feelings and reflections which from every view of the fubje&t were unavoidable.

Mr. Fox then moved, That an humble Addrefs be prefented to his Majefty, which fee in our laft, p. 217, 218.

Mr. Hamilton entered on the argument without any preface. Among other things, he adverted to the management which had been adopted by the other fide of the Houfe. He praifed the conftancy of Minifters, and urged them to persevere.

Mr. Wilberforce expreffed his approba tion of the Addrefs, as it feemed to him to be more full and explicit than the former, and to exprefs the fentiments of the Houfe in the ftrongest terms. He thought this was fair and honeft, and he hoped gentlemen would view it in this light-He could not, however, give it his confent, as he thought it tended, in all its various circumftances, to eftablish a power hitherto unknown to the conftitution, and which tended to deftroy that mixture of government which was the glory and the boast of this country.

Mr. Martin expreffed his difapprobation of the Addrefs.

Sir William Dolben agreed with the Addrefs, fo far as it went to exprefs the conEUROP. MAG.

fidence in the wisdom and goodness of Majefty. Such fentiments of gratitude and loyalty were on all occafions becoming the Houfe, and fhould ever have his concurrence. He could not, however, go along with it in thofe paffages which contained a lamentation on account of the Sovereign's refufing to gratify what was ftated to be the wish of the Houfe. He confidered the prefent Addrefs as putting that union at a dif tance which was fo ardently desired, and veiling the Houfe with an unconftitutional power which did not belong to it, The Houfe of Commons had furely a right to advise his Majefty in the exercife of his prerogatives, but it had no title to put a nega tive on them-and was no. this the very power which it wifhed at prefent to ufurp? If the Houfe of Commons, for reasons frivolous or capricious, were to pafs cenfure, or negative the exertions of prerogative in the choice of Minifters toties quoties, the power of appointment muft immediately and virtually devolve to that Houfe from the Crown. Had not a fimilar mode of reafoning been adopted by the oppofite fide of the Houfe during the reafoning on the India Bill which had lately been thrown out? Was it not on that occafion alledged, that if the Crown had a negative on the appointments of the Court of Directors; if it was authorised to reject them toties quoties, the power of election would not reft in the Com pany, but be transferred to the Crown? And might not the fame mode of reafoning now be applied to the cafe in question?-He thought in juftice it might.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer wished to avoid, as much as poffible, all those repetitions of argument which had become fo frequent, and had mingled themselves of late fo much in the progrefs of debate. He wifhed to confine himfelf, as much as poffible, to what he confidered the point in queftion, and to deliver his fentiments on this fubject with as much concifenefs as lay in his power, that those who speak might not be deprived of an opportunity of giving their opinions, and that thofe who hear might not be tired by a fatiguing and difagreeable reiteration of beaten themes and of hackneyed arguments.

It had been infinuated by an honourable Member, (General Conway) and by fome other, that he was averle from union. He could by no means admit this affertion.

He was equally ftruck at another affertion of the honourable General. It had been af firmed, that the words of the one fide of the Houfe aimed at the annihilation-of its privileges. Good God! how could fuch ideas be formed or entertained? Had he in any part of his conduct, or of his paft procedure, manifefted any pe uliar predilection in favour of Monarchy, or of the undue influence of the Crown? Had he, during the progress of his parliamentary actings, wished 29

to

to incroach on, or to deftroy the privileges of Parliament? The Conftitution and the rights of the Houfe of Commons were circumstances which he had always been taught to venerate. He would therefore appeal to the candour of the Houle, to its recollections of his expreflions on this fubje&t, whether he had not, on all occafions, and under every defcription of circumstances, maintained its privileges and its dignity? His own opinions, his partialities, and his views favoured thote ideas; and he muit have been deluded to have acted in oppofition to them.

But whilft he expreffed his warmest fentiments for the honour and the dignity of the House of Commons, he felt himself under an obligation at the fame time to vindicate the doctrines of the honourable Baronet (Sir W. Dolben) behind him, so far as they refpected the rights of the other branch of the legislature, fo far as they regarded the just and conftitutional prerogatives of the Sovereign. These the conftitution had defined with as much accuracy as it had done thofe of the Houfe of Commons; and it was furely the duty of Minifters, and of Mcmbers of that Houfe, equally to fupport the rights of both.

He expreffed his approbation of the explicitnefs of the prefent Addrefs; he hoped that gentlemen would now speak out, and that they would bring their charges again Minifters. He flattered himself the honourable gentleman's (Mr. Fox) manlinefs and candour would lead him to this, and that he would not any longer tear in pieces the character of Minifters by diftant but dark invective, or unfupported allegation.

He cautioned the Houle against entertaining an idea that the prefent motion was calculated to promote union-it feemned rather intended to divide, and to drive parties at greater diftance from each other.

He infifted that an union, if established at all, muft exift and be formed on honourable principles without this, all coalition was farce, and could never be permanent.

He concluded with apologizing to the Houfe for delaying them fo long; thus much, however, he thought it neceifary to fay in fupport of the ballance of the conftitution, the prerogative of the King, and the privileges of Parliament.

Lord North, Mr. Drake, Mr. Dempster, and feveral other Members having delivered their fentiments, the Houfe divided on the queftion for the Addrefs,

ftated, that this office had been confidered from time immemorial as a civil office. This he concluded from a caufe in the original commillion, which entitled whoever held that fituation to a certain falary from the Civil Lift.

Here Mr. Steel interrupted the noble Lord, by denying that there was any fuch claufe, at leaft in the commiffion making out, as the claufe referred to was an error, which had adhered to the mode of tranfacting for four core years, but which it was now determined to correct.

Lord Maitland thought this a very extraordinary method of getting rid of the queftion, by an attempt to change the nature of the office, with an evident view to disappoint or defeat his enquiry.

Colonel North argued on the fame fide. It was obvious to him, that the alteration fuggefted was meant as a fpecies of management by which the object of the noble Lord might be evaded. He withed, however, the matter brought fairly to an iffue, that the public might be fatisfied, whether the office in content was really civil or military: and as much trefs was laid on the new in contradistinction to the old commiflion, and confequently a defect of evidence fuppofed, he moved," that the commillion appointing Lord George Lenox Lieutenant of the Tower" be laid on the table.

Mr. Anstruther feconded the motion.

Mr. James Luttrell reprobated the queftion altogether, as brought in and profecuted for party purposes, as ultimately abridging the privileges belonging to the military profeffion, and as occupying unneceflarily the time of the Houfe, and that attention which objects of greater and much more confequence ought to have, in his opinion, the preference.

Lord Maitland, Colonel North, and feveral other Members, having fuggested feveral things on the subject, the noble Lord efpecially adverting to the Minifter nodding fignificantly his approbation to what had fallen from Mr. Steel in the courfe of the converfation,

Mr. Chancellor Pitt freely pleaded guilty to the charge; but at the fame time begged leave to remark, that he perceived the noble Lord only hurt at the peculiar movement of his head, because he confidered it as not having nodded the right way. That as he understood that any figns might be laudable, except thofe which were directed in his favour, he did not by any means think, however willing he might be to oblige the noble Lord, it was at prefent in his power to ned in fuch a way as would give him fatisfaction: for he could not be of opinion, that the enquiry on which the noble Lord and his honourable friend, Col. North, were fo very urgent, was likely to turn out as they feemed fomewhat eager it fhould. The honourable gentleman had moved for a paper which did not exift; but how that would

facilitate

facilitate the bufinefs, he was utterly at a lofs to conceive. The error which his Hon. friend

referred to, had undoubtedly fubfifted in the mode of drawing up the commiflion for the time he had fpecified; but then gentlemen might very well conceive how the ftile and form of original deeds were continued by the routine of office, without inputing any degree of blame to the Keeper of the Great Seal whatever. He hoped, therefore, the noble Lord and his friends would fee this matter in a candid light, and as it undoubtedly had the appearance of perfonality, they would withdraw the motion.

Col. North had only made the motion in confequence of the Hon. Gentleman's interruption of the Noble Lord, and grounding a defect of evidence on that particular circumftance; but as he thought it was now the fenfe of the Houfe to withdraw the motion, he had no objection whatever.

Mr. Steel then role, and, after reading to the Houfe a paper, containing the fees belonging to the office of Lieutenant of the Tower, in which were a great many very ridiculous and laughable articles, read allo another paper, itating the fees belonging to the Governor of Jerfey. Having stated the reafons which induced him to rife, he moved, "that the appointment of Lord George Lenox, being a military man, to "be Lieutenanant of the Tower, did not va"cate his feat in Parliament."

Several animadverfions were made on this motion, to prevent any bad ufe being hereafter made of the precedent. A few queitions relative to the execution of the office were alfo put to profeffional men, in order to afcertain the nature of it. It was aiked whether the Lieutenant was, in cafe of being found culpable, amenable to the military law? and anfwered in the affirmative by General Conway. It was also asked, by what right, being a military officer, he could detain for offences againft the civil magiftrate? and anfwered by the Attorney General, by prefeription.

The motion, however, was, after a good deal of converfation, put, and palled with

out a divifion.

MARCH 9.

The order of the day being called for, that the House refolve itfelf into a Committee on the Motiny Bill, a motion was made that this bill be now committed; which was agreed to unanimously, and Sir George Howard took the chair.

General Smith then called the attention of the Committee to various weighty matters refpecting India, accurate accounts of which, he faid, were contained in papers of which Minifters were poffeffed. He afferted, that all military jurifdiction there was at an end; that the Commander in Chief at Madras had been feized and confined; that the Company had arrogated an authority to which they were not intitled over the King's troops; and that they had intimated to their own officers exclufively the inftructions which were intended for the commanding officers of his Majesty's troops.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer obferved, that what had fallen from the Hon. General had furely no connection with the motion under confideration, which was that of the Mutiny Bill. He was not therefore difpofed, neither was he prepared, to go into fuch difcuffion at prefent.

General Smith contended, that whilft a bill for the regulation of his Majefty's forces in India was in agitation, any informations regarding the army in India could not be improper.

Mr. Jenkinfon faid, that what the Hon. General had afferted was wholly inapplicable to the prefent queftion. There was, in fact, a feparate and diftinct bill for the regulation of the troops in India. General Stuart was no British officer. He had nothing to do with the King's fervice, and was therefore in no way whatever connected with the Mutiny Bill. He was not convinced of the propriety of the Company making a Lieutenant Colonel (fuch as Lieutenant Colonel Stuart) a General Officer per faltum. This, however, was a point of fpeculation, and on which he would not decide.

After fome converfation, in which fre

quent allufions were made to the late diffentions in the Houfe, the Bill was read, and paffed the Committee.

MARCH 10.

The Houfe refolved itself into a Committee on the ftate of the navy.

Mr. Brett moved, that a fum not exceeding one million one hundred thousand pounds be voted for the extraordinaries of the navy.

Mr. Huffey was forry that fo great a fum was requifite. He wished that an accurate ftatement of its expenditure might be laid before the Houfe. He adverted to former eftimates of a fimilar nature, and faid that the prefent fum was fuperior to any fum that in any other period had been asked. Mr. Brett ftated the reafons of the prefent large requifition.

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Mr.