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H. OF R.

Proceedings.

JANUARY, 1808.

The Senate have also passed the bill, entitled "An act making appropriations for the support of Government during the year one thousand eight hundred and eight," with an amendment; to which they desire the concurrence of this House. A motion being made by Mr. G. W. CAMPBELL, that the House do now proceed to the consideration of the amendment proposed by the Senate to the bill, entitled "An act making appropriations for the support of Government during the year one thousand eight hundred and eight; an adjournment was called for, on which the House adjourned.

NAYS-Evan Alexander, Lemuel J. Alston, Willis Alston, jr., Ezekiel Bacon, David Bard, Joseph Barker, William Blackledge, John Boyle, William A. Burwell, Joseph Calhoun, George W. Campbell, John Campbell, Peter Carlton, Epaphroditus Champion, Martin Chittenden, John Clopton, Howell Cobb, Richard Cutts, Samuel W. Dana, John Davenport, junior, Josiah Deane, Joseph Desha, Daniel M. Durell, James Elliot, William Ely, William Findley, James Fisk, Meshack Franklin, Barent Gardenier, Charles Goldsborough, Isaiah L. Green, William Helms, William Hoge, Benjamin Howard, Reuben Humphreys, Daniel Ilsley, Robert Jenkins, Richard M. Johnson, Walter Jones, James Kelly, Thomas Kenan, William Kirkpatrick, John Lambert, Edward St. Loe Livermore, John Love, Matthew Lyon, Josiah Masters, William McCreery, William Milnor, John Montgomery, Jeremiah Morrow, Jonathan O. Mosely, Gurdon S. Mumford, Thomas Newton, Wilson C. Nicholas, John Porter, John Pugh, Resolved, That the SPEAKER give information Josiah Quincy, John Rhea of Tennessee, Samuel Riker, to the Executive of the State of New Jersey, of John Rowan, John Russell, Dennis Smelt, Jedediah the vacancy in this House, occasioned by the K. Smith, Henry Southard, Clement Storer, Lewis B. death of EZRA DARBY, late one of the RepresentSturges, Peter Swart, Samuel Taggart, Benjamin Tall-atives from that State. madge, John Thompson, Jabez Upham, James I. Van Mr. MARMADUKE WILLIAMS, from the commitAllen, Nicholas Van Dyke, Jesse Wharton, Marma- tee appointed on the twenty-second instant, preduke Williams, Richard Winn, and James Witherell.sented a bill for the punishment of certain crimes On motion of Mr. DANA, the Committee of the therein mentioned which was read twice, and Whole was discharged from the further consider- committed to a Committee of the Whole on ation of the bill, and it was referred to a select❘ Monday next.

committee.

THURSDAY, January 28.

SATURDAY, January 30.

On motion of Mr. HELMS,

Mr. JOHN MONTGOMERY, from the committee to whom was referred, on the twentieth instant, a Message from the President of the United States, accompanied with sundry documents, presented a bill concerning courts martial and courts of inquiry; which was read twice, and committed to Committee of the Whole on Tuesday next.

Mr. SOUTHARD, one of the members for the State of New Jersey, informed the House of the death of his colleague, Mr. EZRA DARBY, late one of the members of this House: Whereupon, the a House came to the following resolutions:

Resolved, That a committee be appointed to take order for superintending the funeral of EZRA DARBY, Esq., late a Representative from the State of New Jersey.

Resolved, unanimously, That the members of this House will testify their respect for the memory of EZRA DARBY, Esq., late one of their body, by wearing crape

on the left arm for one month.

Resolved, unanimously, That the members of this House will attend the funeral of EZRA DARBY, Esq.,

on to-morrow at twelve o'clock.

Resolved, unanimously, That a message be sent to the Senate, to notify them of the death of EZRA DARBY, late a member of this House, and that his funeral will take place on to-morrow, at twelve o'clock; and that the Clerk of this House do go with the said message.

Ordered, That Mr. SOUTHARD, Mr. MASTERS, Mr. PORTER, Mr. HELMS, Mr. NEWBOLD, and Mr. LAMBERT, be appointed a committee, pursuant to

the first resolution.

FRIDAY, January 29.

A message from the Senate informed the House that the Senate have passed a bill, entitled "An act to revive and continue in force the nineteenth section of an act, entitled 'An act to ascertain and fix the Military Establishment of the United States,' and to extend the provisions thereof;" to which they desire the concurrence of this House.

The bill sent from the Senate, entitled "An act to revive and continue in force the nineteenth section of an act, entitled 'An act to ascertain and fix the Military Establishment of the United States,' and to extend the provisions thereof," of the Whole on Monday next. was read twice, and committed to a Committee

ment by the Senate to the bill making appropriaThe House took up for consideration the amendtion for the support of Government.

of the United States five hundred dollars for conAn amendment allowing the Attorney General tingent expenses being under consideration, after a desultory conversation, was referred to a Committee of the Whole immediately, and disagreed to by the Committee-yeas 3.

The Committee rose and reported their disagreement. The question being taken on concurrence with the Committee of the Whole by yeas. and nays, they were-yeas 101, nays 11.

The House went into a Committee of the Whole, on the bill to erect a light-house on Point Judith in the State of Rhode Island. The blank in the bill for the appropriation being filled with five thousand dollars, the Committee rose and reported the bill, which was ordered to a third reading on Monday.

The House went into a Committee of the Whole on the bill making appropriations for the support of the Navy of the United States during the year 1808. The bill being gone through and

JANUARY, 1808.

Constitution-Indian Treaties.

the blanks severally filled, the Committee rose and reported the bill, which was ordered to a third reading on Monday.

H. OF R.

TREATIES WITH THE INDIANS. The following Messages were received from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION. To the House of Representatives of the United States: Mr. G. W. CAMPBELL.-It has always been my The Choctaws being indebted to their merchants opinion that in a free Government like ours, every beyond what could be discharged by the ordinary prodepartment ought to be responsible for its conduct. ceeds of their huntings, and pressed for payment, proThe Constitution of the United States was evi-posed to the United States to cede lands to the amount dently framed on this principle, and the preserva- of their debts, and designated them in two different tion and security of the rights and liberties of the portions of their country. These designations, not at citizens and the due execution of the laws will creditors, as well as by their own desire to be liberated all suiting us, were declined. Still urged by their be found to rest, in a great degree, on rendering from debt, they at length proposed to make a cession public agents sufficiently and practicably respon- which should be to our convenience. By a treaty sible for their conduct to the nation. That this signed at Pooshapukanuk, on the sixteenth of Novemis not the case with the Judiciary of the United ber, one thousand eight hundred and five, they accordStates has been proved by experience. Your ingly ceded all their lands south of a line to be run judges once appointed are independent of the Ex- from their and our boundary at the Omochita, eastecutive, the Legislature, and the people, and may wardly to their boundary with the Creeks, on the ridge be said to hold their offices for life. They are re- between the Tombigbee and Alabama, as is more parmovable only on conviction by impeachment of ticularly described in the treaty, containing about five high crimes and misdemeanors, and this mode of millions of acres, as is supposed, and uniting our posproceeding has been found in practice totally in- sessions there from Adams to Washington county. efficient, and not to answer the purpose for which it was intended-that of rendering your judges duly responsible for their conduct. They may therefore be considered as independent of the rest of the nation, (and they seem to think so themselves.) as if this provision in the Constitution, relative to impeachment, did not exist. No matter how erroneous their opinions-how dangerous to the public weal-how subversive of the interest of the people-how directly opposed to the laws of your country; yet, as it is neither a high crime or misdemeanor to hold erroneous opinions, which they seem conscientiously to believe, they cannot be removed by impeachment-they are independent of the rest of the nation.

The location contemplated in the instructions to the Commissioners was on the Mississippi. That in the treaty being entirely different, I was, at that time, disinclined to its ratification, and have suffered it to lie unacted on. But progressive difficulties in our foreign than those which then prevailed. It is now, perhaps, relations have brought into view considerations other

as interesting to obtain footing for a strong settlement of militia along our Southern frontier, eastward of the Mississippi, as on the west of that river, and more so than higher up the river itself. The consolidation of the Mississippi Territory, and the establishment of a barrier or separation between the Indians and our Southern neighbors, are also important objects; and, the Choctaws and their creditors being still anxious that the sale should be made, I submitted the treaty to This subject has attracted the attention of the the Senate, who have advised and consented to its ratipeople in most of the States. The Legislatures fication. I therefore now lay it before both Houses of of several States have passed resolutions declar- Congress for the exercise of their Constitutional powing the necessity of amending the Federal Con-ers as to the means of fulfilling it. stitution, so as to render the judges, in practice as well as in theory, responsible for their conduct. The most numerous branch of the Legislature of the State which I have the honor to represent in part, have declared their opinion in favor of such amendment. In order therefore, to bring this subject before the House, that the sense of the National Legislature may be ascertained thereon, I submit the following resolution:

Resolved, by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two-thirds of both Houses concurring therein, That the following amendment to the Constitution of the United States be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, which, when ratified by the Legislatures of three-fourths of the said States, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution: The Judges of both the Supreme and Superior Courts of the United States shall, after the day of be removed from office by the President of the United States, on the joint address of both Houses of Congress requesting the same, three-fifths of each House concurring in such address.

This resolution was referred to a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union.

JANUARY 30, 1808.

TH. JEFFERSON.

To the House of Representatives of the United States:

The posts of Detroit and Mackinac having been ori ginally intended by the Governments which established and held them, as mere depots for commerce with the Indians, very small cessions of land around them were obtained or asked from the native proprietors, and these posts depended for protection on the strength of their garrisons. The principles of our Government leading us to the employment of such moderate garrisons in time of peace, as may merely take care of the post, and to a reliance on the neighboring militia for its support in the first moments of war, I have thought it would be important to obtain from the Indians such a cession in the neighborhood of these posts as might maintain a militia proportioned to this object; and I have particularly contemplated, with this view, the acquisition of the Eastern moiety of the peninsula between the Lakes Michigan, Huron, and Erie, extending it to the Connecticut Reserve, as soon as it could be effected with the perfect good will of the natives.

By a treaty concluded at Detroit on the seventeenth of November last, with the Ottoways, Chippeways, Wyandots, and Pattawatimas, so much of the country

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necticut Reserve.

FEBRUARY, 1808.

a turnpike road between the town of Alexandria and the City of Washington, and erecting a bridge over Four mile Creek; and that such powers and privileges may be granted to the said company as Congress in their wisdom may deem proper. Referred to the Committee of the Dis

The Senate having advised and consented to the rat-trict of Columbia. ification of this treaty, I now lay it before both Houses

of Congress for the exercise of their Constitutional powers as to the means of fulfilling it.

JANUARY 30, 1808.

TH. JEFFERSON.

The said Messages, together with sundry documents accompanying the same, were read, and referred to the Committee of Ways and Means, with instructions to report thereon by bill or bills, or otherwise.

THOMAS BARCLAY.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the report of the Committee of Claims of the eighth instant, to whom was referred, on the twentieth of November last, the petition of Mary Barclay, widow of Thomas Barclay, deceased; and, after some time spent therein, the Committee rose, and reported to the House their agreement to the resolution contained therein, without amendment; which was twice read, and agreed to, as follows:

Resolved, That the proper accounting officers of the Treasury be, and they are hereby, authorized to audit the account of Thomas Barclay, deceased, and that they allow him, while he acted as Vice Consul in France, a salary of one thousand dollars per annum; and that, while he acted as Consul, Commercial Agent, Commissioner of Public Accounts in Europe, and was engaged in negotiating the treaty concluded with the Emperor of Morocco, in the year one thousand seven hundred and eighty-seven, he be allowed a salary at the rate of three thousand three hundred and thirty-three and one-third dollars per annum, exclusive of his expenses; and that, in the adjustment of his accounts with the public, which originated in consequence of his second mission, he be credited with the amount of goods purchased to take with him to Morocco, according to the letters of Mr. Humphreys to the Secretary of State, and the invoices and memorandums transmitted by that gentleman to the Government; and that they pay the balance to the legal representatives of the said Thomas Barclay, deceased, out of any moneys in the Treasury, not otherwise appropriated.

Ordered, That a bill, or bills, be brought in, pursuant to the said resolution; and that the Committee of Claims do prepare and bring in the

same.

MONDAY, February 1.

Another member, to wit: GEORGE CLINTON, junior, from New York, appeared produced his credentials, was qualified, and took his seat in the House.

Mr. LEWIS presented a petition of sundry inhabitants of the town and county of Alexandria, in the District of Columbia, praying that an act may be passed to incorporate a company, to be denominated "The Washington and Alexandria Turnpike Company," for the purpose of making

Mr. BOYLE, from the Committee on the Public Lands, presented a bill extending the time for issuing and locating military land warrants; which was read twice and committed to a Committee of the Whole on Thursday next.

Mr. RHEA, from the Committee on Post Offices and Post Roads, presented a bill to alter and establish certain post roads; which was read twice and committed to a Committee of the whole House on Monday next.

Mr. HOLMES, from the Committee of Claims, presented a bill for the relief of the legal representatives of Thomas Barclay, deceased; which was twice read and committed to a Committee of the Whole to-morrow.

An engrossed bill making appropriation for the support of the Navy of the United States, during the year one thousand eight hundred and eight, was read the third time and passed.

An engrossed bill to erect a light house on Point Judith, in the State of Rhode Island, was read the third time, and passed.

A message from the Senate informed the House that the Senate have passed a bill, entitled "An act to provide for the payment of certain expenses incurred in the inquiry into the conduct of JOHN SMITH, a Senator from the State of Ohio;" to which they desire the concurrence of this House. STANDING RULES AND ORDERS.

On motion of Mr. BASSETT the House proceeded to consider the report of the Committee of the Whole on "The standing rules and orders of the House."

Mr. GARDENIER proposed an amendment to admit within the colonade gentlemen who may have formerly been members of this House. This was opposed by Mr. MACON and others.

Mr. MACON would admit no persons but Senators. Foreign Ministers and Heads of Departhave curiosity to attend here, they may go into ments had no business within the House. If they the galleries like other citizens. If these are admitted, you must also admit the Judiciary, Governors of States, &c. If you admit any, there is no stopping; you must allow every respectable

man to enter.

Mr. GARDENIER conceived it would be a proper act of civility and of courtesy to allow gentlemen, who have been members, to take a seat within the colonade. The number would be so small as never to create any inconvenience.

After some further debate the motion was lost. On the question of admitting the Heads of Departments and foreign Ministers, some debate arose, in course of which,

Mr. DANA observed, that the present galleries were, as to the purpose of hearing, no galleries at all. The proceedings of the House were public

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only in form, for, in this magnificently inconvenient edifice, little or nothing could be heard at any distance.

Mr. EPPES was for excluding Heads of Departments, and he wished never to be heard by the agents of a foreign country. He, therefore, should be pleased to have them referred to the gallery. He thought, that in a free country, only two classes should receive any peculiar distinction, old men, and females. He had rather have the company of the ladies, than all the foreign Ministers that ever came to this country.

Mr. G. W. CAMPBELL was for admitting foreign Ministers, Heads of Departments, and ladies also. As the debates of the House could not be heard in the galleries, he would admit foreign Ministers within the colonade. Our Ministers in foreign countries are admitted to hear the debates of Legislative bodies, and we ought to reciprocate the civility. Mr. C. was also for admitting as much beauty as the House could accommodate. Mr. LIVERMORE advocated the propriety of admitting Heads of Departments, foreign Ministers, and the Judiciary. He had no objection to admit the ladies also. He could well account for the sympathies of certain gentlemen on the subject of admitting the ladies. His situation was different from theirs.

Mr. SLOAN thought it a very improper time to exclude foreign Ministers when an Envoy Extraordinary had just arrived, and an important negotiation was going on.

Mr. SMILIE and Mr. RHEA said a few words, but they were not sufficiently heard.

Mr. NICHOLAS called for a division, and it was accordingly divided.

Mr. EPPES, in allusion to Mr. LIVERMORE, said if that gentleman had arrived at a period of life in which he ceased to feel a sympathy and regard for the fair sex, his condition was really to be commiserated. Mr. E., for his own part, was happy to say it was otherwise with himself, and he hoped he should never cease to feel a respect and tenderness for the sex.

Mr. LIVERMORE explained. He had only observed that the situation of certain gentlemen was far different from his, and as they might be in the road to preferment, they would be more peculiarly solicitous to accommodate the ladies. For himself he had always experienced the truth of the poet's observation: Omnia vincit amor, et nos ceda mus amori.

Mr. MASTERS thought if the ladies were admitted, the numbers should be limited, as their united force might be too powerful for the gentleman from Virginia.

After some further conversation, it was resolved that Heads of Departments might be admittedyeas 54, nays 40.

H. OF R.

ing a decision. If foreign Ministers are now excluded, it may have such influence upon their feelings as to affect the pending negotiation. They have been accustomed to come with their suites, to attend the debates from the beginning of the session, and if now suddenly excluded they may not understand the reason. Besides, the Judiciary, which is a co-ordinate branch of the Government, have in committee been excluded from a seat. The Message of the President in relation to them is now on the table, and if this exclusion is sanctioned by the House, it will look like irritation on our part against that branch of the Government. He concluded by moving that the subject lie on the table.

Mr. RHEA opposed the motion. Among other things, he said that he should be willing to be heard by the whole human race if it were possible.

Mr. SLOAN supported the motion. He observed that the Supreme Court commenced their session to-day. If we now adopt rules to exclude those who heretofore have been admitted, it will have an ill appearance and excite many hard thoughts and sayings. The dignity of the House was concerned in this case.

The motion was opposed by Messrs. STANFORD, BASSETT, and MACON. The debate on this point was at length arrested by a motion from Mr. CHANDLER to postpone the whole subject indefinitely He conceived the House could get along with their former rules, which will be in force till they are superseded by others.

Mr. GARDNER said the lobby had become a kind of exchange for the citizens of Washington to meet and transact business, very much to the disturbance of the House. Some regulation was necessary.

Mr. HOLLAND advocated the postponement. Mr. TAYLOR moved an amendment, which was carried-yeas 43, nays 38.

The SPEAKER said he would take the liberty of observing, before members retired, that it was twelve o'clock to-day, before a quorum appeared.

TUESDAY, February 2.

Mr. NEWTON, from the Committee of Commerce and Manufactures, reported a bill authorizing the issuing debentures in certain cases.-Read twice and referred to a Committee of the Whole.

[This bill contemplates the placing a discretionary power in the hands of the Comptroller of the Treasury, to issue debentures in those cases in which the yellow fever prevailing in the port, omission or negligence of custom-house officers, or sickness in the parties, have caused an omission of the formalities necessary by law to be observed for obtaining drawbacks.]

On motion of Mr. Durell,

On the question of admitting foreign Ministers, Resolved, That a committee be appointed to inMr. EPPES demanded the yeas and nays. The quire into the manner in which the RepresentaSPEAKER decided the call out of order. Several tives' Hall is heated by furnaces beneath the floor gentlemen thought the practice had been other-ing of the same; what probable influence such wise, some doubted, and others supported the Speaker's decision.

Mr. ROWAN suggested the propriety of suspend

subjacent fires have upon the health of the members exposed to their exhalations; and how, or by what means, the injurious effects of the same may,

H. OF R.

Removal of the Seat of Government.

in future, be avoided; and that they report to this House the result of such inquiries.

Ordered, That Mr. DURELL, Mr. JOHN MORROW, Mr. LYON, Mr. SMELT, and Mr. KIRKPATRICK, be appointed a committee, pursuant to the said resolution.

A Message was received from the President of the United States, by Mr. Coles his Secretary, which he delivered in at the Clerk's table.

A message from the Senate informed the House that the Senate have passed the bill, entitled "An act to revive and continue certain causes and proceedings in the District Court of the District of Columbia ;" to which they desire the concurrence of this House.

FEBRUARY, 1808.

to fix a permanent seat of Government; and, for my own part, I ever considered it unconstitutional and contrary to the principles of our Republican form of Government, as much so as it would be for Congress to fix a permanent representation. It is my opinion that the power of one Congress goes no further than the time for which they are elected; and as we return to the mass of the people, at the end of every two years, we have no power to pass a law compelling our successors to sit in the same place that we do. If permitted to speak on this resolution, I shall state that that Congress which passed the law or contract by which it is asserted we are bound to sit here permanently, in departing from their Constitutional powers, brought into existence a nondescript being-a being which has not its likeness on the earth, in the heavens above, nor in the waters underneath the earth. Although but fifteen years of age, it is already evident, to every observing mind, that it is a being of the most voracious kind, and what is worse it is supported on the vitals of liberty; and from its meager and wretched appearance, it must be evident that even in this country, blessed with the love of liberty and freedom, it must perish; and that it is our duty to cause it to perish, is a belief in which I am as much fixed as in any other moral duty.

REMOVAL OF THE SEAT OF GOVERNMENT. Mr. SLOAN rose to offer to the House a resolution, embracing a matter of considerable importance. The purport of the resolution was brought before the House some days ago by those whose fears gave them an alarm, which was further excited by common report. At that time he knew of no foundation, but common report, on which they could ground their apprehensions. It will be recollected, said Mr. S., that I was charged with riding about on hobby-horses, one of which was the removal of the seat of Government; I then considered myself called upon to make reply, and I avowed my sentiments, of which I have never been ashamed. And I now rise, impelled by the love of that country which gave me birth, and further impelled by the duty intrusted to me by a portion of the people of these United States, as one of the guardians of their rights and liberties. As I have been charged with a design of effecting a removal, I now rise to lay a resolution on the table going to effect that purpose, considering the situation of the seat of Government at this place as one of the greatest evils under which the 1 people of the United States do now suffer. As it is a subject of great national importance, I have no desire, in offering it at this time, to press a discussion of it; but, as it has become the topic of general conversation, we have considered it a duty to bring the matter from a state of suspense to a state of certainty-to let the people know that there are a number who are disposed to endeavor But as I intend to say very little at this time, I to effect that removal. Our view is to lay a re-shall barely say that I have been compelled to solution on the table, that it may be committed to a Committee of the whole House, to give time for consideration, and to allow those opposed to it to convince us by reason, if they can, that it is improper; but in order to give a fair chance to those who shall oppose it, and afford a knowledge of the grounds on which we shall support the resolution, I shall briefly state them.

In the first place, there is nothing in the Constitution giving Congress power to fix a permanent seat of Government at any place whatever. Here then I draw a conclusion that it is radically wrong

Alluding to some words exchanged on the subject between Messrs. Sloan and Lewis, in the discussion of the bill for prolonging the continuance of the Mint at Philadelphia.

But, if I should even be wrong in this, permit me seriously to call the attention of the House to one other objection I have. If I am wrong in my premises, and a permanent seat of Government be thought Constitutional, I still conceive that I have another ground for removal, so strong that it cannot be shaken-that this is the wrong place; and this I believe from a variety of evident reasons, which I hope some day to be allowed to state to this House, and for as many reasons, I believe, that Philadelphia is the right place. On this point I beg leave to state a plain and uncontrovertible fact, which none will attempt to contradict-that in a great and flourishing Republic the seat of Government ought to be fixed where provisions are the best in quality and quantity. That this place is Philadelphia is too well known to need proof.

bring forward this by those who advocate it. Believe me, that the safety, peace, and happiness of the United States, at this eventful period, demand us to stop the growing evil, and to remove to a place of safety, where we can unite as a band of brothers and, a consideration of no small imporsociety-and, what is more, where there will be a tance to us individually, where we can enjoy chance for the preservation of health and life. Under these impressions, and from that sense of duty which always has, and always will govern me, regardless of the frowns of the children of men, I offer the following resolution:

Resolved, That it is expedient, and the public good requires, that the seat of Government be removed to the city of Philadelphia for - years, and that a committee be appointed to bring in a bill for that purpose.

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