actly similar to the present. Commissioners were appointed to receive terms of compromise from the agents of the land claimants, and report an opinion thereon to the House. The committee reported in favor of the 1795 (Yazoo) claimants to the exclusion of the 1789 (Virginia and South Carolina) claimants. The latter conceived themselves equally entitled, and requested to be heard at the bar of the House, to show that they should be placed on the same footing with the other claimants. They were heard; and, in consequence of the hearing, an amendment was made to the law then under consideration. Mr. M. then read a part of the address delivered on this occasion by Alexander Moultrie, Esq., their agent.

Mr. Cook had yet heard nothing which convinced him of the impropriety of hearing the claimants at the bar of the House. He had never heard the subject illustrated before the House, although it had been decided on since he had been a member. It was now brought forward again, supported by the unanimous voice of a large and respectable State. The claimants complained of many hardships, amongst which, that they were not heard. He expressed his surprise that gentlemen who thought the Yazoo claim so iniquitous, should be unwilling that it should be heard. If it were a bad cause, there would be no fear of its overcoming their judgment. If it were detestable on a full hearing of it, they would detest it the more. He hoped the resolution would prevail, as he wished to hear the real merits of the case.

FEBRUARY, 1808.

so, and I believe it must be beard. Sound policy and justice accord in requiring that it should be heard. We have by a very late acquisition from the Choctaw Indians acquired a large tract of land-part of the claim. Our public lands will not be purchased till the claim is settled. I hope the consideration will expedite the business. ́I conceive these claimants to have the same right to be heard as others, and more perhaps, because their claim had been acknowledged by Commissioners appointed by the United States.

Mr. DAWSON expressed regret that this matter should be so pertinaciously pressed upon the House. It may be remembered by many gentlemen in the House that, at a former session of Congress, when the subject of claims in general was under consideration, by verbal information these claimants declined being heard at the bar of the House. They then had the power and right to support their claim, and declined. I am now opposed to hearing counsel in their behalf. I remember the case of a venerable old man, who fought your battles, who headed your armies, whose head was covered with grey hairs, and bowed down by the infirmities of age, and who made application to be heard at your bar in support of his claim. The House determined that he should not be heard. And shall preference be given over him to persons of this class? I am convinced that it would only agitate the public mind, and therefore hope it will not be granted.

Mr. BIBB had entertained a hope, for the sake Mr. HOLLAND rose to express a wish that the of the harmony so desirable at the present crisis, motion would prevail. He thought differently that their attention would not have been called to with the gentleman from Georgia, who thought this detestable subject. He had hoped, from the such an admission and discussion would irritate past agitation, that their angry passions might the House. He hoped no member would individ- have been calmed, and that they might be allowed ually advocate or oppose the claim; that every the quiet discharge of the duty which they owed one would be ready to hear it fairly explained and to the nation at this time. But he had been disdecided on. He hoped, if prepossessions existed appointed. Gentlemen seemed to think this a on the minds of any members, they would do all propitious time to press a subject calculated to crethey could to erase such prepossessions; at least ate animosities and discord. No possible good that they would sit silently and hear what was could result from a discussion of the claim. Gensaid in favor of the claim. When persons had tlemen must be convinced that they would injure been heard in behalf of the Virginia and South the American character by stooping to examine a Carolina claimants, they had conducted them-claim founded in bribery, perjury, and corruption. selves with so much propriety that the whole I am sorry to say, observed Mr. B., that the GovHouse had been satisfied. He supposed that the ernor of a respectable State has taken advantage person admitted in behalf of the present claim- of his elevated situation, to press upon the House ants would probe the matter so easily as not even a private claim. In that station I am sorry to say to discompose the gentleman from Georgia. A that he has become the advocate of fraud and gentleman had said that this was so well known corruption. But I did not rise to go into a disthat all knew it ought to be condemned. In say- cussion. I rose to say that if discussion does coning this, the gentleman was not correct; for Com- tinue upon this motion. with a view to force upon missioners appointed by the United States to in- us the merits of the claim, I shall move an indefvestigate the subject had said that equity and inite postponement of the motion. sound policy required a settlement. Not only Mr. GARDNER was in favor of adopting the mothis authority, but more than this: this House tion. After having spoken twice on the subjecthad at one time taken up the subject, and, on the as often as he could speak without special leavemain question, there was a large majority in fa- it was not surprising that the gentleman should vor of the principle. Further authority still: wish to postpone the debate. The gentlemen The Senate had at one time passed a bill for the from Georgia seemed to be very warm on this settlement of the claim. Therefore, if the gen- motion. With great warmth, also, had they optleman from Virginia had said it ought not to be posed the reference of the memorial on the subheard, Mr. H. did not agree with him. I believe ject. He had heard these gentlemen accuse their that it ought to be heard, I have always thought Town State government of bribery and corruption.

They must have some foundation for this, or they would not do it. But, of this bribery and corruption, Mr. G. knew not; he wished the matter to be investigated, and was in favor of the mode now proposed. It was a pretty important subject; it might have been investigated by some gentlemen; but of Yazoo he knew nothing but what he had learned since he arrived here. According to the usage of deliberative bodies, to admit counsel to investigate matters before the House, he could trust himself to admit this agent, and so should

vote.

Mr. CHANDLER observed that he should vote in favor of the motion, as a precedent was shown in which similar indulgence had been granted to other claimants. Much had been said about the subject's being thoroughly investigated. It might have been, but it had not been since he had held a seat in this House. Whenever it had appeared here it had been put down by hard words, and the ery of "Yazoo!" He wished to know, in some way, the reasons, pro and con-to hear both sides of the question. As to the Governor of Massachusetts advocating an individual claim, the gentleman from Georgia was misinformed. Mr. C. had understood that the Governor did not possess a cent of property in the claim, nor was he capable of taking advantage of his official capacity to advocate fraud and corruption.

Mr. BIBB said he would only observe that he had been informed by a colleague of the gentleman who was last up, that Governor Sullivan was one of the claimants.

H. OF R.

it necessary, on this occasion, to travel out of the usual course; and no arguments had been used in support of the admission of counsel in this case, that would not apply with equal force to any claim against the United States.

Mr. DURELL said that there was something in this claim which required that it should be heard at the bar of the House, in contradistinction from common claims. He conceived the Yazoo claim to be of the first importance; he did not believe there was any individual claim of a citizen against the United States of equal magnitude. If gentlemen, in discussing this and like subjects, would use argument and reason, instead of rambling at large, and endeavoring to excite the passions, it would not be difficult to decide on the propriety of granting or rejecting the prayer of the petition. There were two points in this case proper for consideration; 1. Was the principle correct, that this House should, in any case, admit an advocate at the bar of this House to urge or demonstrate the right of a petitioner? 2. Was this a case of that description? He had no doubt that the principle was correct that advocates should be admitted, in support of which precedents had been quoted. Had there been no precedent, however, he should not have doubted. By the Constitution the good people of the United States had certainly a right of presenting their petitions. In his mind, it followed conclusively that they had a right of being heard by themselves or counsel. It was the universal practice in all the State governments with which he was acquainted. He supposed it to follow, of course. It was not presumable that gentlemen of this or of any deliberative body should intuitively know the merits of any case. It was certainly necessary, in order to pass understandingly in every case, that its merits should be known. How get at them? Not by reading the petition merely. It was not presumable that an agent of the claimant should be found in a member of the Legislature. He knew no course, then, but to let in the petitioner, or, which was the same thing, his agent. If, then, it was right in principle, was the case before them such a one as to make it necessary that this privilege should be allowed? Several considerations occurred in favor of it. It was a case of magnitude, of great importance in point of property, none more so that he knew. Why were gentlemen agitated about it? Why were the Representatives from the State of Georgia agitated about it? They wanted the business to be kept back to prevent the House from being agitated. Surely the single consideration that there was fifty new members, would call for a discussion and fair examination of the subject. He was a new member; he had no interest in the claim to which the petition referred, nor did he know that there was a drop of his blood in any one who was connected in the Mr. Love remarked that it was indeed true that claim to the amount of one cent; but he was unthere were many new members, but such had acquainted with the merits of the case, and wishbeen the discussion which had taken place alrea-ed to know how to get at them. He wished, in dy on the subject, with the repetition by its pub lication in the newspapers, that he felt perfectly prepared to vote on the subject. He did not think

Mr. UPHAM observed that, although he was a Representative from Massachusetts, he was not acquainted with the subject; he knew not its merits or demerits. At all events, the claim was intricate. If it was founded in corruption and fraud and perjury, and supported by falsehood, he should like to know. But he was not willing, because of these observations, made by gentlemen, to say that it was founded in corruption and fraud and perjury, or that it was supported by falsehood. He wished to examine this, as he would all other claims. There seemed to be something very awful even in the name of Yazoo; if that was the case, he should like to know the whole of it; and if he found it so corrupt, he should give his vote against it, and feel as much indignation at it as any gentleman. But what reason, under Heaven, could there be, why this should not take the usual course, or why should there be so much cause for irritation? As far as he understood it, he could not see why. Although many seemed to understand the whole matter, it should be recollected that there were forty-eight or fifty new members, who, perhaps, did not understand the merits of the question. He hoped the resolution would prevail, and that they should hear the prayer of the claimants.

all cases, but more particularly in important cases, to decide understandingly. How could he now so decide? By the information which the gen

FEBRUARY, 1808.

Yazoo Claims.

H. of R.

in a free country, is a violation of fundamental counsel? And will you grant to Yazoo specuaxioms, and may lead to a violation of the social lators the privilege which you refused to him? compact? This Governor Sullivan threatens you This very company, who now pray for a hearing, with a violation of the social compact; this man might have been heretofore heard, and why were of Yazoo fame, and of speculating morals, threat- they not? They were, then, perfectly indifferent ens you with a dissolution of the social compact; about a compromise; they would, indeed, have he purposes to march his thirty thousand men into accepted a compromise, if offered, but they were the Mississippi Territory; and this agent, whom not anxious about it; they wished to frighten the it is proposed to introduce, is his pioneer. Is not nation into an act of injustice. But now the tawhat I have stated a fact? It is in black and bles are turned; the laws of last session, or the white, and now on record, that the Governor of session before, have put down Yazooism forever; Massachusetts has thus threatened you; and yet have taught them to come forward now, and claim gentlemen can express their wonder and astonish-a right which, five years ago, they spurned. Whenment that we have feelings, and express them. He hoped the motion would be rejected.

ever this subject is brought up, I shall meet it in every form, and, so long as I am able, oppose it with my voice.

Mr. QUINCY said, it seemed to him in general practice, that argument on this floor, for the illustration of any general point, was expedient; and, in this case, the main argument urged by the gentleman from Georgia, and others, was a reason why the course of which a precedent had been produced should be pursued; that they ought to keep them

Mr. CHANDLER said, that the very decent and modest manner in which the gentleman from Georgia had treated the Governor and Legislature of Massachusetts, would need but little reply. Gentlemen would judge whether that decency, which is always requisite, had been observed. The Governor, in that case, had acted in obedience to an order of the Legislature; it, then, became his duty; and he had no more than com-selves in good humor with one another, and that, plied with it.

As to the claim, said Mr. C., I know nothing, as I have said before. I have repeatedly heard it said here, that the Legislature of Georgia, which originated it, was corrupt, and I do not doubt the fact; or that they were corrupted by people out of Georgia. But it seems to me that it is very extraordinary that there should be such an objection to have light thrown on the subject; and all the petitioners ask is, that they may be heard, that the thing may be fairly investigated; and it would not be a great injury to gentlemen once more to turn their attention to this subject.

therefore, a subject of this kind should not be discussed between them. Mr. Q. acquiesced with gentlemen, in the opinion that this was not a time when those passions should be introduced, which this subject was calculated to excite; but it was a subject from which they could not shrink, which they must meet, because it was a subject connected with their official duty, and expose them as it would to the censure or personalities of other gentlemen, they must see that the subject was fairly presented to the members of this House, particularly to those who were new members, and had never yet had an opportunity of hearing disMr. EPPES said, he had not been present when cussion on this subject. Now, much time would the original memorial was presented to the House be saved, much irritating argument avoided, and this session; but he supposed that the unusual re- the public good promoted, if an individual were spect shown to this subject, on the present occa- admitted on the floor to state the general princision, was owing to the respectful form in which ples of the claim of the petitioners, who would reit had been produced to the House. It has become frain from making any observations which would fashionable to say, observed Mr. E., that these have a tendency to excite irritation, and press his Yazoo claimants have never had a fair chance of observations no further than the House should bringing their claim before the public. What is please to attend to them. The prayer was therethe fact? The first year in which I had the hon-fore reasonable. Discussion on the subject could or of a seat in this House, the subject was fully and amply discussed; in the second, also, as well as various other periods; and every man living in a country where newspapers circulated, is well acquainted with it. It seems that the claim is now brought forward in a new form, like a scoundrel introduced into decent company in a new garb, who wishes to become the head of the company into which he was introduced. Last session, the claim was rejected here; it has been renewed, under a respectable authority. But, because we have treated the memorial of a State with respect, are we to admit one of the gang interested in the original fraud within our walls? I hope not. Let the same course be pursued with this claim as with every other; at least, let not an odious distinction be made in their favor. Have you not been told of a venerable patriot, now hobbling in your lobby, whose claim you refused to hear by

not be restrained; it had become actually necessary. It was impossible for a Representative from Massachusetts to stand on this floor and not represent the opinions which there prevailed. But, were an opportunity given by the admission of an advocate to relieve themselves from that necessity, much time of the House would be saved, and passion prevented.

With respect to the precedent which had been adduced, and the attempts to make a discrimination between that case and the present, Mr. Q. observed that the circumstances of each were similar. The former was an old claim-this was, also. The former was a claim in which the public were deeply interested, from the nature of the claimso was this. There was also another circumstance which had not been noticed, and which ought to have weight. The former was a claim from the Virginia and South Carolina company-this was

H. of R.

Yazoo Claims.

FEBRUARY, 1808.

a claim from a Massachusetts company. In the doubt. This claim was therefore connected with one case, an advocate of the claim was heard at the great question of public policy as to its settlethe bar-in this case, it was insisted that it should ment by compromise on general principle, as all be denied. This was a question which was grow-great territorial questions had been settled by coming into a local question, more than gentlemen promise. This mode of settlement had also been would allow or believe. He would not justify the recommended by commissioners of the United claim, or enter into its merits at this time. In States. This was, therefore, a claim of a pecuMassachusetts, a sentiment, feeling, and interest, liar character. He could not see why the gentleexisted on this subject, very different from what men from Georgia should not express peculiar feelwas generally understood by the members on this ings. Their feelings as men, and as gentlemen, floor. With respect to the observation of the gen- were operated upon by the feelings of the State of tleman from Georgia, on the memorial of Gov- Georgia, which appeared to be precisely against ernor Sullivan, Mr. Q. observed that the passage the claim. And no doubt the gentlemen from alluded to was by no means an expression of threat Georgia thought this a perfectly iniquitous and to the House, but of a reflection presented to the base business; they felt intensely in this case, from House for its consideration, whether or not such their peculiar situation. Other gentlemen, howprinciples as these did tend to the dissolution of ever, perhaps looked at the subject through a difthe social compact. The gentleman from Vir-ferent medium. He was not disposed, particularly ginia (Mr. EPPES) had told them that the law of at this time, to enter into an examination of facts; last session had put this question down. In doing but, one reason why he did not consider it entirely this, had they not put down the Judiciary power unworthy of consideration, was, that Commisof the United States? It was indeed true, that sioners appointed by the United States to examthey could put down any claim by putting down ine had reported in favor of a compromise. Had law. There was also another consideration which any new fact or demonstration of turpitude or corhe would put to the gentlemen from Georgia, ruption occurred since the Commissioners made merely for their reflection, as it respected the effect their report ?-any new evidence of profligacy? which their warmth might have upon men's minds Had not the Commissioners who were appointed in other parts of the Union. It was true, a con- to examine claims to Western territory full evisiderable zeal existed against this claim in some dence before them on this subject? of the Southern States, but men interested themselves would remember one fact, that, from the tenor of the compact, as he understood it, the very land which these men claimed did revert to the State of Georgia, after a certain term, if not granted to claimants. That State, therefore, and its Representatives, had a strong individual interest to put down every claim of this kind; for, in the result of no grant being made, they would

Mr. EPPES begged leave here to interrupt the gentleman, to tell him that he was totally mistaken. The compact said that it should revert to the United Statas, and become a common fund.

Mr. QUINCY said he was then misinformed. He wished his own mind, and that of every other gentleman, to be kept clear and unobscured by local prejudice or individual passions; and he believed it would tend to create harmony that the subject should undergo an illustration, and that they should coolly decide on the prayer of the claimants.

Mr. TROUP begged that the gentleman would not proceed further into the merits of the claim, as, by so doing, he would compel Mr. T. to go at this time into a full examination of it, contrary to his wish.

Mr. DANA said he would not, then, proceed further on that point; but there was one bearing of the present question which he would notice-whether the Commissioners were not persons whose opinions gentlemen themselves ought to respect. If, said Mr. D., we are by a vote now to reject this application, we shall mark the claim with peculiar reprobation. What will be the event of that vote, as it respects its ultimate bearing? What will be said of the persons who have, in their official capacity as Commissioners, spoken favorably of the claims? What must the nation think of this House, or the other branch of the Legislature, when they pass a vote of reprobation on those to whom they have given evidence of preference, Mr. DANA said, in ordinary cases it was not per- and seemed to approve as qualified to fill high offihaps proper to admit counsel; for, if counsel were ces? It is a subject of common report, that duradmitted to support all claims, it would occupying the last month a very considerable proportion so much of their time that they would not be able of members of this House assembled in the Senate to proceed with public business. It must be in Chamber, and there considered the question who extraordinary cases only that counsel should be should succeed the present Chief Magistrate of admitted-in cases of such magnitude and import- the Union; and that a majority of gentlemen there ance that the admission of counsel could not inter-present did designate as a proper person for the fere with the general course of business. Was office of Chief Magistrate a gentleman who was this, then, a claim of sufficient importance? It one of the Commissioners appointed on this Yaamounted to several millions of acres of land, the zoo claim. It is true, 1 and some of my friends value of which was estimated at several millions did not receive an invitation to it, though we have of dollars-perhaps a sum nearly equal to the made no secret of our republicanism, even in these whole annual revenue of the United States. It days of secrecy; but I know this from report. If affected a vast territory, which the United States you reject this claim, you imply that the charachad sold, the value of which would be materially ter of this person is not sufficiently stern in conaffected by the right of it being cleared from all siderations of this kind. I therefore submit to the