fiat justitia, ruat cœlum, might be a very excellent maxim; but, it would be a monstrous proposition if we were to say, fiat stultitia, ruat patria; if for any folly or absurdity of ministers we were to say that we ought to suffer the honour and character of the nation to be destroyed. But then it was said, to wards the close of the debate, that Ireland was in danger of being invaded, and that there was a party there ready to join the invaders. If so, if you will not make peace with Bonaparte, why not make peace with Ireland? Why not reconcile them to this country, instead of investing them with two arbitrary acts of parliament? The right honourable gentleman concluded with giving notice, that he should bring forward that question in the course of the session. Colonel Montague Matthew expressed in strong terms his mistrust of a set of ministers, that had come into office with an avowed hostility against five millions of his majesty's subjects in Ireland, and said, that he hoped in God he should not see them in their situations this day six months. The question was then carried without a division, and the house adjourned. On the 21st, after several notices had been given by different members, particularly, one by Mr. Bankes for leave to bring in a bill to prevent the granting of offices in reversion; Lord Hamilton brought up the report of the address; which occasioned another animated debate, and was then agreed to, It was ordered to be presented by such members as were of the privy council. On the following Monday, to which the house adjourned, lord Stopford reported, at the bar, that the address had been presented, and that his majesty had been pleased to return the following most gracious answer: "Gentlemen, "I return you my cordial thanks for this dutiful and loyal address. Your assurances of support in this most difficult and extraordinary crisis have given me great satisfac tion; and I receive them as a fresh proof of your loyal determination to support, in every emergency, the rights and dignity of my crown, and maintain inviolate the security and happiness of my people." Mr. Sheridan then gave notice of an intended motion on the state of Ireland, viz. for the appointment of a committee to inquire into the nature and grounds of the existing grievances. After this, and notices respecting other motions relating to foreign licenses, by Mr Horner, and to Russian papers by Mr. Ponsonby, Mr. Bankes made his promised motion on places in reversion, to which he did not expect any opposition, as a bill of the same kind had actually passed the house last session, and was only prevented from going to the lords by the prorogation of parliament. He begged therefore that the proceeding of the 10th of August, 1807, relative to reversionary grants, be now read: it was read accordingly, when Mr. Bankes observed, that he thought it merely necessary to remind the house of the fact to which they no doubt would consider themselves as now pledged; the house then thought the bill which he now should move for, to be of so important a nature, that they judged it necessary to present a petition to the crown, to which his majesty had been pleased to return a most B 4 gracious undisputed exercise of the preroga tive. gracious answer. He trusted that the house would not now see any reason to depart from that line of Mr. Whitbread said, that the conduct which it had then so credi- right honourable gentleman had tably adopted: it was now perhaps stated as the ground of his objecmerely necessary for him to put the tion the single reason, that he house in possession of the fact, as thought it would be an infringeit stood recorded on their journals, ment on the prerogative of the and exhort them to persevere; but crown; this he did not make out, as there had been fears entertained and even if he had, it would have of the measure being fraught with been no valid objection But, howtendencies injurious to the prero- ever, it was but grateful in that gative, he felt it his duty to assure right honourable gentleman, as he the house that the conviction on his had been considerably indebted to mind was rather of an opposite reversions himself, and if he (Mr. nature; he was sure that it went Whitbread) was not mistaken, rather to strengthen than intrench was now in expectation of one; upon the prerogative of the crown; the zeal of the right honourable it might, no doubt, temporarily gentleman against this mode of suspend the exercise, or rather the reform may, therefore, be easily abuse, of the prerogative, but that accounted for. He contended that very suspense would ultimately the grant of reversions had given tend to strengthen it. Besides, ac- rise to great and general abuse. cording to the present system, of. The right honourable gentleman, fices were too often disposed of in the chancellor of the exchequer, a manner that did not much tend for instance, had been an infant to the encouragement of ability and when he got the grant of a place in desert. Independently of those two reversion, now held by his noble reasons, he had a third, which relative, lord Arden, who had observed to confirm the two former: tained it in the same way: there this was the manner in which the were many other instances in that proceedings of the commissioners house, and surely this called for of inquiry had been cramped and legislative interference, The post incommoded by the grants of re- granted in reversion to the chan versions. He would not trouble cellor of the exchequer was a most the house with any further obser- lucrative one, but yet required no vations, but move, that leave be other talent to fill it, than that of given to bring in a bill to prevent knowing how to count the money the grant of offices and reversions it produced so gratuitously. He during life, or with benefit of sur- trusted, that if there was to be a vivorship. dissentient, he would be a solitary one. Mr. W. Dundas was not present when this question was last before the house; had he been present, it should ther, as now, have had his decided opposition, and for this single reason, that he thought it an unjustifiable intrenchment on the prerogative. It might suspend for a long series of years, an hitherto Sir John Newport begged leave to state an instance that had come within his knowledge, of the injurious consequences of the system of granting reversions. The department of the customs, in the office of collector of the port of Dublin, had called for reformation; and and the changes and improvements that were thought necessary have been delayed in consequence of a reversionary grant, nor can they be carried into effect till the said grant actually takes place. Mr. Horner vindicated the aspersions which had been thrown upon the memory of Mr. Burke, one of the proudest ornaments of this or any other country, by the inconsiderate- observations of the right honourable gentleman (Mr. Dundas). He (Mr. Horner) denied that the latter part of Mr. Burke's life went in any way to invalidate or contradict the sincerity of his earlier efforts. Those who were honoured with that great man's friendship, or those who were acquainted with his very last work, knew that he took his chief honour and credit in the pursuit of such measures as tended to every species of economical reform; they knew that to the latest hour of his splendid career, he was as zealous and as sincere an enemy to rapine and public malversation as in the most vigorous period of his memorable life. As to the proposed bill, he approved of it most heartily, as one by which the work of œconomical reform was begun; nor could he be brought to think it as infringing at all upon the royal prerogative, The question was then put and carried, with the single negative of Mr. William Dundas. Mr. Bankes then brought in the bill, which was read a first time, ordered to be read a second time on Wednesday, and to be printed. The bill went through its several stages with an almost perfect unanimity: but on the first of February, when Mr. Bankes moved that the bill do pass, Sir Samuel Romilly expressed his regret that the bill had reached this stage, without the house know. ing what was the opinion of his majesty's ministers, as to its merits. He supposed they were not hostile to it, because they had not opposed it; but it was of no small importance for the house to know, whether it had their support or not. He remembered that on a former occasion, when a bill similar to the present had been brought into parliament, a right honourable gentleman had said, that in his opinion it was a matter of very great indifference, whether it passed or not: that on one hand it was no invasion of the king's prerogative, and that on the other, little practical good could result from it. He was of a different opinion from the right honourable gentleman, for he thought, that if no practical good could be derived from it, the bill ought not to pass; but he was convinced that much good would result from it, and therefore it had his hearty support. It was advantageous both to the crown and the subject, and if it trenched upon the royal prerogative, it was desirable that this prerogative should no longer exist. It had likewise a tendency to facilitate the object for which the finance committee had been appointed, and in this view he considered its operation as most useful. The chancellor of the exchequer protested against the doctrine which his learned friend seemed disposed to lay down in his speech, of his (Mr. Percival's) being obliged, as a member of parliament, to support any measure otherwise than by his vote. The fact was, that a bill, similar to the present, recommended from a most respectable quarter, was brought into parliament, from which some gentlemen, for whose opinion opinion he had the highest deference, expected very advantageous results. Though he had not the same expectations with those gentlemen from the measure itself, he did not oppose it, because he conceived it to be perfectly harmless. The bill, however, to the surprise of many, was disappointed of its effects in another place, and the circumstance of the house of commons having approved of the bill last year, was in his opinion a sufficient motive for advancing it now to the same stage at which it was formerly stopped; and this he avowed to be the ground on which it had now obtained the support of his vote. The bill was passed, and ordered to be carried to the lords. Here it was received with coolness; and on the second reading, March 1st, it was opposed by lord Arden, the lord chancellor, lord Redesdale, and the duke of Montrose. It was, however, after a violent struggle, suffered, by a ma jority of 8, to go into a committee. Upon a second division, the numbers were equal, and the bill was sent into a committee; but in the next stage of the business it was thrown out by a majority of 80. Jan. 26. In the house of commons, the chancellor of the exchequer, and in the house of lords, lord Hawkesbury, presented the orders of council, which in both places produced a conversation of some length. It was contended in the upper house, that whatever proceedings were founded on these or ders must originate in the other house, and that it would be the proper time for ministers to explain themselves, when a bill came up in regular course. In the commons, the chancellor of the exchequer professed his in tention of submitting some propesitions on the subject on a future day, he thought in a committee of ways and means, when he should explain the views he had respecting them. He was aware that some collateral measures had arisen out of these orders, such as granting licenses for the importation of cer tain articles, otherwise contrary to law, which would make it necessary for ministers to apply for an act of indemnity. Dr. Lawrence declared his opinion, that upon the face of the or ders there were things contrary both to the law of nations and the mu nicipal law of this country, Lord Henry Petty on the following day said, he thought it was of importance that the house should be in possession of the acts for which ministers were to receive indemnity, before they came to view the acts of council merely as a financial resource. On the question of indem nity, whenever it should be brought forward, it would be necessary to inquire, 1st, Whether ministers were placed in such an absolute state of necessity as called on them to commit a violation of the exist ing law: 2dly, Whether the extent to which they claimed indemnity was adequate to the indemnifying them in all the respects in which they had violated the law of the land. The chancellor of the exchequer said, he certainly did also admit that there were particular instances in which ministers had interfered, in which their interference was not justifiable on any distinct principle of law. But he had at the same time positively stated that these instances had no reference whatever to the orders of council. He begged of the noble lord to refrain from forming any opinion on these particular particular instances, till he knew in what they consisted. He should give the noble lord a specimen of what he alluded to. When the Portuguese found it necessary to bring away whatever they could, they were obliged to employ neutral shipping in doing so. By the law as it stood, no articles the produce of Portugal could be brought into this country, but in Portuguese or British bottoms. It was necessary, therefore, that something should be done in such a situation. An application being made to the treasury, an order was issued to permit the landing of Portuguese produce from neutral vessels This was a violation of the law; but it was such a violation of it as the house, he was confident, would not scruple to say, ministers ought to be indemnified against. This was one of the acts to which he had alluded, when he admitted that ministers would require indemnity for some licenses which they had granted. These, however, had nothing to do with the acts of council; and even where they did ap ply, he saw no necessity for giving any notice relative to them, till they came regularly before the house. Jan, 28. In both houses of parliament votes of thanks were moved to the officers employed in the Bal, tic expedition. We shall content ourselves with a summary account of what passed in the upper house. Lord Hawkesbury said, the motion he should have the honour of submitting to their lordships' con sideration had no relation to the policy of the attack upon Copenhagen; it merely related to the execution of the service upon which the expedition was sent; and were that expedition as unjust and unnecessary, as he thought it just and necessary, or as impolitic and une wise, as he thought it politic and wise, still he would contend that this would be no ground of opposition to a vote of thanks to those who had so ably and skilfully executed the services which that expe dition required. In this case he would put out of consideration the policy of the expedition, and con fine himself to the manner in which its purpose had been carried into effect. The object of that expedi tion was undoubtedly of great magnitude and importance; that object was attained by the skill and ability of the officers employed. The circumstances attending it were shortly these: In April last, a large force was ordered to be prepared for the general purposes of the war, a part of which was subse quently sent to cooperate with the troops in Swedish Pomerania, When his majesty's government afterwards received intelligence of the circumstances attending the treaty of Tilsit, it was deemed ad, visable to send a large force to Copenhagen for the purpose of secu ring the Danish fleet, and preventing it from being used against this country. This force was got ready, and sailed with the utmost promp titude, with a minister on board to negotiate with the Danish court, and thereby prevent, if possible, the painful necessity of resorting to arms. A junction was to be formed with the troops of Pomerania, the commander of which was to take the command of the whole. This necessarily took up much time, notwithstanding which the fleet was off Copenhagen on the 8th of Au gust. The attempts to induce the Danes peaceably to deliver up their fleet having failed, the disembark. ation of the troops commenced on the 16th. This necessarily took more time, and was not completed |