April 21, 1800.

THE house, pursuant to the order of the day, resolved itself into a committee, to consider of his Majesty's message relative to the propositions of the Irish parliament, for an incorporating Union with Great Britain; and Mr. Sylvester Douglas having taken the chair of the committee,

Mr. PITT rose:

Sir, The sentiments of this and the other house have been so clearly and decisively expressed in the vote which was given on this important subject during the last session of par. liament, that I feel it altogether unnecessary to renew the arguments then advanced and acceded to with respect to the advantage, expedience, and necessity of the measure. Recollecting, that the grounds then offered for the union of both kingdoms were so solid and unalterable as to meet with an almost universal concurrence; and also recollecting that the subsequent discussions which have taken place in the parliament of the sister kingdom, must have confirmed and riveted the decision so unequivocally manifested in this country, I shall only trouble the committee so far as to recall the magnitude of the question which is now submitted to their consideration, and to remind them, that it is not one partial consideration, not a single provision, however great it might be, which claims their attention, but a consideration in which the dearest and most essential interests of both countries are most intimately connected. If we wish to accomplish the great work that we have undertaken, we must look to the whole of this important and complicated question; we must look at it in a large and comprehensive point of view; we must consider it as a measure of great national policy, the object of which is effectually to counteract the restless machinations of an inveterate enemy, who has uniformly and anxiously endeavoured to effect a separation between two countries, whose connexion is as necessary for the safety of the one, as it is for the prosperity of the other. We must look to this as the only measure we can adopt which can calm the dissentions, allay the animosities, and dissipate the jealousies which have unfortunately existed; as a measure whose

object is to communicate to the sister kingdom the skill, the capital, and the industry, which have raised this country to such a pitch of opulence; to give to her a full participation of the commerce and of the constitution of England; to unite the affections and resources of two powerful nations, and to place under one public will the direction of the whole force of the empire:-We must consider this as a measure, Sir, the object of which is to afford an effectual remedy for those imperfections which exist in that precarious system that at present binds the two countries together; a system which, if an incorporate union should unfortunately not take place, may ultimately tend to their separation.

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Sir, when these are the objects which are to be obtained by this measure, the committee will not, I am sure, consider it as a measure of partial or local 'convenience, or of partial or local sacrifice; but in forming their opinions they will consider its general effect upon the whole of the aggregate of the empire. deciding on this question, we ought to be actuated by another feeling, a feeling which it is not necessary for me to state, because the magnanimity of every gentleman must have suggested it to his own mind. In the union of a great nation with a less, we must feel that we ought not to be influenced by any selfish policy, that we ought not to be actuated by any narrow views of partial advantage. We must refute by our conduct (what indeed we might have hoped our terms had already refuted, if what fell from an honourable gentleman this day did not unfortunately prove that a degree of unaccountable prejudice still existed) the idea that we have any other object in view than that of promoting the mutual advantage of both kingdoms. We must shew that we are not grasping at financial advantages, that we are not looking for commercial monopoly; we must shew that we wish to make the empire more powerful and more secure, by making Ireland more free and more happy. These, Sir, are the views-these are the only views with which I could ever have proposed this measure; and it is with these views alone that it can be rendered effectual to its object, and establish mutual harmony and confidence between the two nations.

But it is not merely a sentiment of generosity and magnanimity. which influences her conduct; in thus striking a balance between two nations, justice requires that the greater share of advantage should fall to the less powerful one. Fortunately such has been the rapid progress which this country has made in commerce and in capital, that it has arrived at a degree of prosperity unexampled in the history of the world; that it is in a situation in which perhaps no other country ever was, either to treat with a friend, or to contend with an enemy: such are the rapid and unprecedented advantages which we are making in commercial prosperity, that, admitting that the adoption of this measure might be attended with particular inconvenience and local disadvantage, the wealth which the country will acquire, even while this discussion is going on, would much more than compensate for such particular loss. It is not necessary for me to detain the committee by dilating any more upon this part of the subject; I flatter myself that every gentleman who hears me, concurs with me in every sen timent which I have advanced. If, with feelings such as these, we proceed to the examination of these articles, with an intention of not overlooking any part of them, of examining them with a view to see whether they may require any alteration, but at the same time with a firm determination not to suffer small difficulties to stand in the way of important national arrangements and advantages; if, Sir, I say, we are actuated by these feelings, I hope the century will not conclude without the accomplishing of this great national work, which will give a full participation of our wealth and happiness to millions of our fellow, subjects - which will place upon a firm basis the connexion between the two coun tries, and will augment and secure the strength and prosperity of the empire.

I will not trouble the committee with any further observations of a general nature; I will now take a view of the resolutions which have been laid before us, and which have been agreed to by the parliament of Ireland. It will be necessary for us to see how far they accord with those which were agreed to last sessions in the British parliament; and how far that which they have altered,

or added, is objectionable. In looking at them with this view, it will be seen that the first article merely relates to the name of the United Kingdoms, upon which I apprehend no difference of opinion can subsist. The second article relates to the succession of the crown, and which is precisely the same as that which was agreed to by the parliament of Great Britain. In the third article is the beginning of the detail, which must necessarily take place in treaties of this sort between independent nations. It divides itself into five leading branches, viz. the regulations with respect to the imperial legislature; the provisions for the security of the established church; the regulation of the commercial intercourse bétween the two countries; the arrangement of their respective proportions with respect to revenue; and, finally, the provisions relative to courts of justice. In examining and deciding upon these resolutions, I must beg gentlemen to compare them with those which were agreed to by the parliament of Great Britain, and transmitted to Ireland. In our resolutions we agreed that the whole of the United Kingdom should be represented in one imperial parliament we stated, that the number and proportion which the members from Ireland should bear to those of Great Britain, and the regulations respecting the mode of their election, should be such as might be finally agreed upon by the respective parliaments of the two kingdoms. In these resolutions the parliament of Ireland have stated their opinions upon these points: the first and most important of which is, the share which they ought to have in the representation in the house of commons.

Upon a full consideration of the subject, the parliament of Ireland are of opinion, that the number of representatives for* Ireland in the house of commons ought to be one hundred. Upon this subject, the first question to which I have to call the attention of gentlemen (supposing that they adhere to the resolu tions of last session) is, whether the number so mentioned by the parliament of Ireland is so reasonable, and founded in such fair proportions, that we ought to agree to it? For my own part, Sir, I will fairly confess, that upon this part of the subject it does appear to me extremely difficult to find any precise ground upon

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which to form a correct calculation, or to entertain a positive preference for any one specific number of members rather than another but I am the less anxious about it, because I do not consider the consequences as very important. In my view of representation, founded upon the experience of our constitution, I think we are entitled to say, that, if a nation becomes united with us in interests and in affection, it is a matter of but small importance whether the number of representatives from one part of the United Empire be greater or less. If there are enough to make known the local wants, to state the interests, and convey the sentiments of the part of the empire they represent, it will produce. that degree of general security, which will be wanting in any vain attempt to obtain that degree of theoretical perfection, about which in modern times we have heard so much. Considering it in this point of view, (if the interests of the two countries are identified, and the number of representatives are adequate to the purposes I have mentioned,) I really think the precise number is not a matter of great importance. At the same time, when it is necessary that the number should be fixed, it is necessary to have recourse to some principle to guide our determination; and I am not aware of any one that can more properly be adopted, than that which was laid down in the discussions upon this part of the subject in the parliament of Ireland; I mean a reference to the supposed population of the two countries, and to the proposed rate of contribution. I do not think that the proportion of the population, or the capability of contribution, taken separately, would either of them form so good a criterion as when taken together; but even when combined, I do not mean to that they say are perfectly accurate. Taking this principle, it will appear that the proportion of contribution proposed to be established, is seven and a half for Great Britain, and one for Ireland; and that, in the proportion of population, Great Britain is to Ireland as two and a half, or three to one: so that the result, upon a combination of these two, will be something more than five to one in favour of Great Britain, which is about the proportion that it is proposed to establish between the representatives of the two countries.