to them, but for the allufion which had been made before and which he touched upon, and briefly explained, for the purpose of fhewing their inapplicability to the prefent point, he came to the confideration of the point of the Union of force-an union of armies for inftance. Unless there was fuch an union of the armies of the two countries, as to be able to fay truly there was but one army, he would fay with regard to the affairs of the British Empire-" Chaos is come again."" Two armies are the grizzle of the state." The navy should also be united. It should not be understood that it was to be made up of patched work, as if one part of the Empire was to furnish a fhip and an half, another a quarter, and fo on. No! no! there fhould be one and only one Navy, furnished by the united zeal of all parts of the whole empire. One Army then, and one Navy, was to be fupported as a fentiment by every man who wished well for the British empire. The natural confequence of a Union would be that the two countries would have but one law. It was not neceffary for him to detain their Lordships with ftating the advantages that muft refult to Ireland from fuch an event. He threw no flur on the mode in which justice was administered in Ireland, but he believed that no man of fenfe would be forry that it fhould be adminiftered in the old way, that was, that it was administered in Ireland as it is in England. Why then, the two countries ought to have one Army, one Navy, one Law. What was the next point to be taken into confideration? The next point was commerce: but here he would obferve, that the law was paramount to all ideas of commerce; for indeed, if a man were to ask him whether he would give up his pound of Sugar or his Habeas Corpus Act, or whether he would give up his Trial by Jury or his pound of Indigo, he should fay he had no invincible attachment to Indigo or Sugar, but that he had to the Habeas Corpus Act and the Trial by Jury. With regard to the finances of Ireland, he could not help obferving, that it was not to be expected that this country fhould continue going on any longer in giving fecurity for the loans made by Ireland. And here it was obfervable that Ireland had derived great advantages in a financial point of view from this country; but it was not to be expected that these advantages fhould continue without a Union; becaufe without a Union, in a financial point of view, there was no fecurity for their continuance. There must therefore be between this country and Ireland a fyftem of Union, as it were, offenfive and defenfive, against the common enemy. This point was fo

clear

clear that he knew of no man who was against it. What was the next point?-The next was, a mode, or general fyftem of taxation; and by the way, under this head, an honourable and efficient meafure might be adopted' for taxing the abfentees of Ireland, who had been much complained of; many of them he knew to be confcientious and honourable men, and if they were fairly, equitably, and according to the rules of law, taxed, they would clearfully pay the impoft. He did not mean to fay that they would chearfully fubmit to the Income Bill; that he believed to be an oppreflive meafure, and that from the experience Minifters had of its effects in this country, they would never be induced to try it in any other; and he hoped that the reprefentations already made, and the many which he had no doubt would be made, they would think of providing fome relief for the heavy grievance of this impoft; not that he withed to fpare the landed intereft-"No," fáid he, " Tax us drones as much as you will, but fpare the bees that are making the honey-the traders of this country are the bees that make the honey-we,' the landed intereft, are the drones that confume it." Thefe, he faid, were the great points of Union which he wished to fee carried into effect. Some might fay, "You have the greater part of them already."-To which he would anfwer would have an Union, that we may be fure of having them always, instead of their being, as they are now, fubject to the affection, and perhaps jealousy of two bodies of people." I think that this confideration is effential to the ftrength of the whole British empire.

I

But there was one point on which his mind doubted, he meant a Parliamentary Union. This was one of the component parts of the meafure propofed, at which he could not look without feeling the utmost apprehenfion; not from any local or partial caufe, fuch as the ruin of Dublin, which was portended as the inevitable confequence of its adoption. For his part, admitting it to be the cafe, he did not think it a valid argument, or that any man would infift, if the meafure was found good for Ireland generally, that the interest of the whole fhould be facrificed, from regard to a part. Yet even on this he differed from those who apprehended fuch injury to the metropolis. He poffeffed himself a confiderabie eftate near it; and fo far from dreading any fuch effect, he was convinced it would rife confiderably in value if an Union were once adopted. To fuch arguments, however, as had been used against it, he was willing to give all the weight they merited; nor would he treat them as dictated

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by a filly pride, to which he had heard them attributed. In their view of the measure, it was not the parade attendant on an independent legislature that directed the conduct of the Irish; he was convinced their oppofition grew out of a love for true and fubftantial liberty, and not from any idle or fhewy confideration. But while he gave them credit for their feelings, he could not agree that many other of the objections were no better founded than the apprehension of local injury to the city of Dublin. He did not think either that the objection which might be made on the ground of raifing taxes was a good one; for it could never be fuppofed that the united Parliament would opprefs Ireland with any extraordinary burthens. With regard to the fubject of taxation, it was more matter of detail than any thing else, and on that account he fhould only fay that it was more likely to be in favour of the people of Ireland than against them.

As to the queftion of an addition of 100 Members to the English House of Commons, and of their being outvoted, he could only fay that the Minifter knew too well the advantages of one battalion of guards to neglect another. But this fubject was fo well treated by an able writer (Dean Tucker), who had introduced into a few pages of his pamphlet more fenfe, as well as more patriotism, than was to be found in whole volumes upon this fubject. He should be doing injustice to the author if he attempted to convey his meaning in any words but his own; and therefore he hould only mention this matter merely by way of informing their Lordships, that in this pamphlet, which was lately publifhed, they would find every thing that he could with to fay upon that fubject. But there was another point which was by no means fettled, and which ought to be well fettled before any Union could be of any avail-that was, the difpofition of the people of Ireland. He feared that from the difcordant particles of which the mafs of Irish population was compofed, that from the different defcriptions and perfuafions of its inhabitants, they would not be able to underftand the measure fo as not to be betrayed into acts of violence. For the entertainment of fuch doubt there was but too much reafon. Upon this fubject, it was manifeft that Minifters had mifled themfelves; they were ignorant of the difpofitions of the Parliament of Ireland, for, if they had thought they would have been out voted, they would not have brought the fubject forward; but fince it was clear that if they knew fo little of the Parliament, they must know very little of the difpofition of the people of Ireland. With

regard

regard to the Catholics, they were highly exafperated: they were now in a state of extreme irritability, and great caution fhould be used not to enflame the diforder. It was idle to talk of this unhappy state as the refult of religious bigotry. A Papift of the old fchool, and a modern Catholic, were now no more alike than a Christian and a Mahomedan. Their emancipation was a thing which it was vain to attempt to ftop-it was too late to try. They crawled upon all fours; they had been allowed to ftand upon two, and it was idle to think that they would not look their governors in the face. The thing was gone by it was fully to fay that we were forry that any thing was done for the Catholics; we ought to rejoice at it, and cheerfully finish all that we had begun upon that fubject.-There was nothing to fear from it. Those who thought there was, ought to look at the condition of the Pope, ought to look at the ftate of France. They would then fee that there was no fear from any body of men, on account of the religion which they profefed.That fpecies of deception was gone" The queftion (faid the noble Marquis) is not what religion you shall have, but whether you fhall be permitted to have any? It is not whether this, or that, religion fhall be deftroyed, but whether all religion fhall be deftroyed?-Under this fituation of things, every good man is called upon to join the standard of Jefus Chrift, keep, if you can, the religion of Jefus Chrift. If you cannot get the religion of Mahomet, or any other religion; for any religion is better than none; at all events unite to oppofe and keep from entering among you thofe who have no religion, and who are enemies to all. With refpect therefore, to religious feuds and incompatibility of spiritual tenets with political government, there was as much to be apprehended from the bigotted Proteftant, if a Proteftant fuch a man could be called, as from the Roman Catholics.. But the question was not now about any particular religious doctrine, it affected all religions; and the conteft refolved itself into this, whether the chriftian religion itself could be saved from the torrent of impiety and innovation, which threatened to overwhelm the whole moral as well as political world. Inftead, therefore, of treating the Catholic with harfhness, every body must admit that more good might be expected from generofity.

A Member whom he did not know perfonally (Mr. Dobbs), but whofe fpeeches in the Irish Houfe he admired, had faid of the people of Ireland, "treat them fairly and justly, avow at once your object, and if it be just I will pledge

myfelf

myfelf for their acquiefcence." He would add to the speech of that fenfible man, and fay-Do not come forwards with your hesitating, "perhaps," or, "it may be," or, "we will confider," or any fuch ambiguity; but come boldly forward at once, and tell them fincerely what you intend doing. In all the affairs of life, fincerity has fucceeded nine times out of ten; and although the mafs of the people of Ireland are to be pitied for want of education, yet I know from the experience of forty years that liberality is never ill requited by them; and here I am induced to allude to a whimfical trifle, which I am informed is well expreffed in the Irifh language: In fuch legends were often found the trueft picture of the difpofitions and manner of a people. In one of these a man was made to fteal a poker from a woman, who charged him with the theft; the accordingly put to him every teft the could devife-his oath-his faints. &c.-all which he helitated not to take' in confirmation of his innocence, until at laft, fhe propofed to him to aver the truth on his honour, when he, who had defpifed every other obligation, immediately confeffed his crime. This, although a ludicrous incident, his Lordfhip thought was, to a confiderable extent, defcriptive of the national character, and thewed how much might be expected from being plain with fuch a people. In fhort all his experience, all his information, tended to convince him that they poffeffed an honeft and generous feeling, capable of being directed to the beft purposes by proper treatment. They were wild and uncultivated, it was true; but there were no people fo wild and ftupid as to relinquish a certainty of a reasonable portion of liberty for the purpofe of feeking a greater fhare at the manifeft risk and lofs of all. But to come to perfons of education among the Irish people; the diffenters for inftance: there was not, he believed, a better informed body of men in the world than they were; and they added to their information a firmness that was peculiar to themselves. They were acknowledged to be a very clever fet of people; and a French journalist in this country had reprefented them as being as able as the Girondifts, which certainly was no flight degree of praife. He hould therefore like to know what they think of this propofed Union. It would be better for Minifters to collect this fpecies of information than to talk about the competence of Parliament. "I hate the word competence," faid the Noble Marquis, "I hate the word rights. I would not be within an hundred miles of the difcuffion of either if I could help it. A prudent Parliament would refrain from them,

as