With refpect to the obfervations which the Hon. Gentleman had made upon the fituation of Ireland, upon the difficulties that would attend any attempt to carry any measure of this nature into execution, and upon the little advantage that would enfue if it were effected, he certainly could not agree with him, having, as he had, a very different view of the fubject. Was it poffible that with reference to the propofitions of 1782, any one fhould affert that the plan then adopted precluded any future arrangement? Had not the events which had occurred fince that period been fuch as to have rendered Ireland an object of the utmoft anxiety.That the fituation of Ireland was at all times a matter of great importance to Great Britain, was a point that required no argument to prove; but after the numerous and momentous events which they had witneffed within a short period, this country was interested in whatever concerned that kingdom.-The events to which he alluded were too notorious to render it neceffary for him to enlarge much upon them. If they all knew that a moft foul rebellion had exifted in that country, which by the wife and vigorous meafures of Government had been checked, though not totally quelled; that party heats and animofities ftill exifted -factions ftill remained, whofe objects were not merely the throwing out this or that Adminiftration-who aimed not at partial reform of this or that political abufe, real or pretended; but whofe views threatened the annihilation of the Government and Conftitution of Ireland, the alteration of its laws, and the total destruction of the communication between that country and this? If they knew all thefe circumftances, they could not but feel how deeply interested Great Britain was in the fate of Ireland. But if these were notorious, he wished to know what made them fo? He would not upon this occafion recur for proof of the exiftence of confpiracies in England or in Ireland to the verdicts of Juries, of which the Hon. Gentleman had fpoken fo feverely; but he would recur to evidence, which would leave no doubt in the mind of any impartial man.-Evidence which would fhew that legal acquittal was not always a proof of moral innocence. He would prove the existence of confpiracies, not for Catholic Emancipation-not for Parliamentary Reform-but for the total fubverfion of the Government, and for the complete feparation of the two countries. He would prove this evidence, to which no anfwer could be made-he would prove it by the avowals of felf-convicted traitors-avowals, not proceeding from a pe

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nitence for past guilt-not from a regret of the evils they had brought upon their country-not from an apprehenfion of the misfortunes which might enfue-not from a wish to fave their country from the calamitous confequences of their own wickedness-No; fuch was not, he was forry to say, the fpirit with which thofe avowals were made; they ftill faid to themselves, though you have for the prefent defeated the treasonable plans which we were purfuing, yet we are not wholly divested of hope; though you have detected our plots (plots which, except for the vigilance of Parliament, and of the Executive Government, would have laid the capital of that couutry in afhes, and deftroyed every thing that was valuable or dear to them), though you have fucceeded thus far in difcovering our confpiracies, yet ftill we have hopes; much ftill remains behind; though we have failed in the execution of our projects, yet we confole ourfelves with the idea that they will one time or other be accomplished.-After the detection, therefore, of thefe deep and damned plots, was it not expedient, nay, a thing of urgent neceffity, to examine into and adopt the most effectual means of counteracting the pernicious confequences that may ftill flow from them-confequences that not only affect the continuance of the connexion between the two countries, but which deeply ftrike at the profperity and very exiftence of both?

From these avowals, the Houfe muft feel with how much anxiety they ought to look towards Ireland: the object was indeed moft important: it was not the making of a provincial regulation, not the adjusting an internal difference, not the arrangement of a plan for the balancing of parties-the object was nothing less than to fecure Ireland to us and to herself, and thereby to promote the happiness and fecurity of the whole Empire. Instead of the strange mode of proceeding which the Hon. Gentleman had adopted, of requefting the Houfe to treat a propofition of this immense importance with fuch unprecedented contempt, he thought it would have been more fair, and more candid, to have pointed out to the House what were the imperfections in the plan, and to have waited, in the firft inftance, to know what were the particulars of that measure, which he was fo anxious the Houfe fhould reject without hearing. If fuch a cafe was made out as proved the neceflity of fome important measure of this kind, and fuch a cafe was, he was fure, made out in every man's mind, furely it could not be confiftent with the duty of that Houfe to treat this propo

fition with the contempt with which it was now propofed to treat it. It would be a more statefman-like mode of proceeding-it would be more confiftent with that patriotifm which the Hon. Gentleman profefied, and for which he was willing to give him credit-it wou'd be more confistent with that regard which the Hon. Gentleman had profeffed for his native country, deliberately to examine this plan before he rejected it, and then, if he could fuggeft any other means, by which fuch a defirable object could be attained, to ftate it for the confideration of the Houfe. The Hon. Gentleman, had not, however, ftated himself to be in the poffeffion of any fuch plan, and the Houfe would not, he was fure, reject the difcuffion of that which was now propofed to them. In forming his opinion upon this momentous fubject, he should endeavour to collect every poflible information from perfons the best informed upon the ftate of that kingdom. It was far from his wifh, in the difcuffion of this queftion, to take any uncandid advantage, and therefore he was very willing to admit, that the propofition to be laid before the Houfe would certainly be in the naturé of an union. The rebellion which had exifted could be repelled only by force; but fuppofing, for the moment, that it was entirely fubdued, and laying it at prefent out of the queftion, he would ask any man, what he looked to as the probable iffue of the agitations that distracted that country? In this part of the argument he could not help alluding to a book which the Hon. Gentleman had attributed to a Gentleman in office in Ireland, and which he had treated with much harfhnefs; with refpect to the arguments contained in that book, it was not neceflary for him to repeat them at prefent, though he perfectly coincided with them. The Hon. Gentleman feemed to think the author of that book highly inconfiftent in endeavouring perfuade two great bodies of people, that their interefts were reconcileable to one another. It did not really appear to him, confidering the prefent ftate of Ireland, that there was any thing either impolitic or inconfiftent in fuch an attempt. But the best way to obtain information was, to afk the parties themselves who were the most interested; he would afk, first thofe who were the warmest advocates for the Proteftant afcendancy. For this purpofe he would appeal to a book written by a moft learned and ingenious man, Dr. Duigenan, (he did not know whether he pronounced his name correctly). He wished to obferve of this book, that one of more convincing argument and more No. 18.

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found truth he had never feen. The learned author had demolished his antagonist, Mr. Grattan, in the completeft manner. He begged to obferve, that in making this appeal to Dr. Duigenan, he did it with great candour, because he really did not know whether he was hoftile to the union or not. Dr. Duigenan was well known to be decidedly hoftile to the pretenfions of the Catholics; he infifts upon their exclufion from a fhare in the legislature, or in any of the great offices of the State, but confeffes at the fame time. that the neceffity of that exclufion would be done away by the adoption of fome plan fimilar to that proposed in his Majesty's most gracious meffage, He states it as an unavoidable alternative either that fuch a plan must be adopted, or that fome other must be devifed for the fortification of the Proteftant afcendancy. This fortification Dr. Duigenan would fain build on the re-enactment of the Popery code, or upon the conditions of fomething like an union between the two countries. According to him either of thefe alternatives must be agreed to. The Popery code took its rife after a propofal for an union, which propofal came from Ireland. It was rejected by the British Parliament, and this rejection produced the Popery code. If an union were therefore acceded to, the re-adoption of the Popery code would be unneceffary. If we now looked at the Proteftant party it would appear that they were willing to adopt an union, or in failure of it, to continue a ftruggle for every thing that was dear to them in rights and pre-eminence, and in religion. If we attended to the views and wishes of the Catholic body, we also faw that without an union they would perfift in a struggle to remove all incapacities, and have repealed what yet remained in force of the Popery code.

Here then were two parties in oppofition to each other, who agreed in one common opinion. But then it was contended, there was fomething in the prefent crifis which. rendered this an improper period to propofe this measure.This furely was ftrange reafoning. If a union would quiet the agitation of that country, and restore it to reft, why hould they wait till the ftruggle was over, before they administered the remedy? Surely, if two combatants could be parted, it would be wrong to poftpone the interference till the battle was over. Some Gentlemen were fo fond of a boxing match, that they had rather fee it fought out, than that the parties fhould be feparated; but when it was recollected that the parties in this conteft were too great national divifions, and that the prize they were contending

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for was the Existence of the Government and the Connexion between the two countries, it furely must be a rash fondnefs for the fport, that would delay for a moment the plan of interference and reconciliation. Why fuffer the avowed, continued, and detected efforts of the traitors in Ireland to be carried into effect, by delaying the only measure that could counteract them? What elfe was there in the cir cumftances of the prefent time which rendered the meafure improper? It could not be that the continued efforts of France for the fubjugation of Ireland had been detected and defeated, because whatever delicacy there might exist in interfering between two national parties, there could be none in preferving Ireland from France. It could not furely be contended, that they ought to wait till France attempted another invafion, before any fteps were taken to restore Ireland to a state of tranquillity and happiness? By promoting fuch an union of interefts and affections, he would remove the neceffity of keeping a large armed force in Ireland, and by removing that neceffity he would remove one of the objects of his own cenfure and complaint.

The Hon. Gentleman had infinuated fomething of the deliberations of Ireland being influenced and intimidated by the armed force now in that country. Whatever might be the effect of the armed force in Ireland, it certainly did not appear to have taken away the freedom of fpeech. Nobody who had noticed what had paffed in that country could entertain fuch an idea. A very refpectable Gentleman in Ireland, who filled the fame fituation with a Right Hon. Gentleman to whom he was then addreffing himself, had availed himself of the opportunity of delivering thofe fentiments out of doors which he could not do within. God forbid that the armed force which we now had in that country fhould check either the freedom of fpeech or of deliberation. It is natural indeed that Dublin, under the influence of the first impreffion, and of the first ardour that has been kindled by the agitation of a question fo materially involving its peculiar interefts, fhould be warm, if not intemperate, in the expreffion of its fentiments. Dublin was as yet loud in its reprobation of the meafure; but other places of note and celebrity in Ireland, places that ftood as high in commercial importance, and in the acquirement of collected wealth, were on the contrary as forward in beftowing upon it their most marked and decided approbation. In their efforts to promote it they were determined to per fevere, and, as he trufted, not without effect. But this 4 R 2

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