ferve a serious refutation. For my part, I am of opinion, that, in the prefent fituation of Ireland, neither the acquiefcence of her Parliament in the claims of the Catholics, or its refiftance to them, can bring about the defired effects. The agitation of the fubject would rather, I think, tend to aggravate the diffentions between her inhabitants, as more decidedly committing two fects, in acknowledged hostility to each other; and if you furnish the one with the means to extort the power from the other, the union between them is obviously removed to a greater diftance than ever. Sir, one of the main grounds which makes me anxious for the Union is, that these feuds can be as little compofed by conceffion to the claims of the Catholics, as they can by refiftance to them, fo long as Ireland remains a feparate kingdom. But in the mean time, by the motion of the Hon. Gentleman's, you are fetting an example which you know not will be adopted in Ireland, and of which you cannot tell, the effect. I must also disclaim the Hon. Gentleman's propofition, on the ground of its tending to affect the independence of Ireland. I fhould alfo regard it with caution as a measure of policy, as uncertain how to operate on the minds of the Irish nation at the prefent moment. On this head, Sir, I do not hesitate to fay, I think it would make rather an unfavourable impreffion. It fubftantially goes to an inference with the internal policy of Ireland, which the Honourable Gentleman affects to advise us by all means to abstain from. In fhort, Sir, were the measure to be adopted here, and to be attended with the effect of inducing a fimilar proceeding in Ireland, it would involve a diffolution of the frame and fyftem upon which her conftitution abfolutely depends, and it must produce the worst consequences in the minds of a party in that country, who were taught to believe that the existence of their power and property depends upon the exclufion of the Catholics. Upon thefe grounds, Sir, I deem it my duty to refift the propofition, as equally impolitic and improper to be agitated at the prefent moment, and in the prefent fituation of Ireland; and I certainly fhall, if I perceive the Honourable Gentleman feriously inclined to perfift in it, take the fenfe of the Houfe upon the question.

The Speaker wifhed to fay a few words on the point of form. If the Houfe fhould be of opinion, that the words of his Majesty's Meflage did not warrant the Committee in embracing this fubject, the motion would be regular ;-but if the Honourable Gentleman was well founded in his opi

nion, that it did come within the meffage, then it was not regular in its prefent form.-The purpofe of the inftruction. was to give a power which the Committee did not poffefs. If they did poffefs it, the motion was not regular in point of form. It should have been, that it be an instruction to the Committee in the first inftance.-That would be regular, because the House were not informed of any thing that had been done in the Committee.

Mr. Sheridan faid, he had no objection fo to alter the wording of the motion as to render it agreeable to those forms referred to by the chair, as he principally wifhed by every proper means, that it might have a priority in dif cuffion over the plan propofed by the Right Hon. Gentleman. And I am glad to make this amendment, because it affords me an opportunity of commenting on fome of the obfervations which have fallen from the Right Hon. Gentleman. He had now a right to address the chair again, and he would avail himself of that opportunity. He thought it was a little extraordinary to hear the Right Honourable Gentleman talk, as if he doubted whether another Member was ferious in what he proposed to the Houfe-what it was, that the Right Honourable Gentleman found paffing in his own mind, that made him fo very ready to fufpect that another perfon faid one thing, and intended another, he knew not-he dared to fay, he felt within himself fufficient admonition to guard against human duplicity. He knew not how to defcribe the imperial arrogance of the Minister, upon this, as well as upon every other occafion. He rejects my propofition on the ground of its being done avowedly to influence the proceedings of the Irifh Parliament, thereby contending that it fo far militated against their independence, and yet he wishes the Houfe to adopt his propofitions exprefsly for the fame purpofe, in the hope that the proceedings might eventually influence the deliberations of the Parliament of Ireland. At the fame time, I repeat, Sir, that if all difcuffions referring to the affairs of that country, are to be deferred until it should pleafe the Irish Parliament to refume the topic, preffed to their attention by the British Government, it will be in fact deferring thofe confiderations ad Gracas Calendas-I muft again notice, Sir,' how tremblingly alive the Right Honourable Gentleman is for the independence of the Irish Legislature; and again the glaring inconfiftency ftrikes me-my motion only involves a general propofition, whether or not fuch would conduce to the real strength and unity of the British empire. But what do

the

the propofitions of the Right Honourable Gentleman involve? no lefs than that the Parliament of Ireland fhould at once give up all its Legiflative Independence, and furrender it to the British! We are called upon, Sir, to do all this, and on the mere fuggeftion of the Right Hon. Gentleman, who at the fame time objects to your entertaining the difcuflion of a particular opinion fuggefted by me-It would be idle and frivolous to waste time, in expreffing the inconfiftency of fuch an argument. On a former night, when the recent indulgencies of the British Parliament to the Catholics of this country were referred to, the comparison was cenfured as improper, because the Catholics of Ireland being fo differently circumstanced from those of England, it was faid no perfon fhould be fuch an enemy to the Irish nation as to recommend fuch a proceeding, until the coun try was fully prepared to guard against all the ill confequences which might arife from the measure of their emancipation; and it was afterwards contended, on the same side, that Ireland could not be prepared for such a measure, unless in the event of a Union. But the Right Hon. Gentleman has flipt by a very material part of my argument. He said, there was no remedy to the religious feuds in Ireland, but an Union. This was really the charge against him: Why, if he was of this opinion in 1795, did he tell lord Fitzwilliam that these feuds might be removed without an Union? Why did he authorife that nobleman to make promises which were not fulfilled? Why did the Right Honourable Gentleman occafion all the maffacres, and all the tortures, and all the horrors that had been felt in Ireland? [Hear! hear! hear!] Yes, he was, and those who fupported him, and placed a mercenary confidence in him, were the authors of all the calamities of Ireland. He faid, they were fo; was it a little thing to fay, that the English cabinet, with Mr. Pitt at their head, had determined that the Catholics should have their emancipation, and then fuddenly to turn round and recal the very man who was authorised to make this declaration? Was that a little charge against the Right Hon. Gentleman? It was for him to fay, why he did all this? Certain it was he did, and certain it was that calamities had followed. He was now propofing to do no more than what the King's cabinet authorised Lord Fitzwilliam to do in the year 1795. He propofed now to adopt an opinion which had been expreffed by the King's cabinet. The question then was fimply this: Was it fit that the House of Commons fhould exprefs in 1799, what the King's cabinet, with Mr.

Pitt at its head, had expreffed, and authorised to be carried into effect in 1795? He wanted a pledge for which the Irish Catholics would have fome refpect, the pledge of the Parliament of Great Britain, instead of that for which they could have none, the pledge of Executive Government. He felt this most forcibly, but he fhould not take the fense of the House upon it, unless fome friend of his infifted upon it, for he had no pleasure in giving trouble without profit; but he would say that he was fully convinced of the great advantage to both this country and Ireland, if he could perfuade the Houfe to adopt the measure.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid, that the argument and the motion of the Hon. Gentleman were inconfiftent with one another, and could not ftand together, and therefore he would take the liberty of faying they were rather ridiculous. The Honourable Gentleman might be offended when his fincerity was doubted, but when he moved a thing that was utterly repugnant to the argument by which he attempted to support it, it was no new thing, nor a bad compliment to the understanding of the Honourable Gentleman, to doubt whether he was fincere in both. He had therefore intimated that doubt, because both could not ftand together. The motion was, to declare in England that to which alone an Irish Legiflature is competent; the argument was, that this was neceflary in order to conciliate the Irish-that was to fay, to conciliate by means that must be likely to exafperate. But the Honourable Gentleman had discovered that an amendment was neceffary to his motion, and this was for the double purpose of fhewing it was not confiftent with his Majesty's meffage, and of adding a few more contradictory obfervations of his own.

object was to throw on him the imputation of attacking the independence of the Irish Parliament. He faid, he was tremblingly alive to the independence of the Irish Parliament, and that at the fame time, while he thus pretended to feel for that independence, he proposed a measure tending to its destruction. He would fay, that fo far was the proposed Union from being of that tendency, that it was a measure founded on, and fairly growing out of that independence arifing out of the very foundation of independence, and that it was a measure to which independent Parliaments alone were competent. Notwithstanding his volunteering as the champion of that independence, the motion which he brought forward was both in itself and the arguments by which he fupported it, a direct attack upon it. The Union No. 22,

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was no dictation; the propofal of it was only an invitation to another legiflature to confider. The measure of the Hon. Gentlemam muft either be totally nugatory or dictatorial. He propofed only, that the Irith legiflature fhould judge for themselves-the Hon. Gentleman propofed to pafs in England, that which belonged exclufively to the Irish Parli ament. The Hon. Gentleman had ftated, that by agreeing to his motion, the Houfe would only confirm the fentiments which his Majefty's Minifters had expreffed in 1795. It was neceffary to trouble the Houfe with a few words. concerning the affair of 1795, which had been alluded to by the Honourable Gentleman, and that the refufal to grant certain conceffions to the Roman Catholics, and the subfequent recal of Lord Fitzwilliam was the caufe of the diftractions and convulfions which fince that time took place in Ireland.

Now, as to that part of the tranfaction of 1795, to which the Honourable Gentleman alluded, he would fay, in the firft place, the circumftance of refufal, to give to the Catholics the emancipation then in queftion, was no caufe of the discontents and diftractions of that country; as the hiftory of the whole of the rebellion and its circumftances proved-proved to the conviction of every fair and impartial obferver-proved by the teftimony of the Honourable Gentleman's friend. On the evidence of that perfon, in defence of his character, that Honourable Gentleman appeared upon his oath. That perfon, the accomplice-in a greater degree, than any other, the author of that treafon, which is falfely faid to be owing to the want of the Catholic emancipation, and other difputes concerning religion. I fay, it was not from thefe difputes originated the rebellion. I fay, that none of these distractions arife from any promise that was made to any perfons in Ireland, and afterwards withdrawn, or to any authorifed promises that were to be held out, and which were afterwards withdrawn. The Hon. Gentleman will recollect, when a motion was made for an enquiry upon the fubject, it was refufed upon the ground that compliance with it would not be confiftent with the public fafety. This is not the first time I have had occafion to fpeak out upon this fubject. It is not the first time I have ftated this-I faid the fame thing when a question was moved in this Houfe, that required that declaration from me. 1 ftated my reafons for not going further than I did; I fay now, there were no hopes given to Lord Fitzwilliam to hold out, which were afterwards retracted or withdrawn..