owing to the ministers themselves. When, a few years ago, the Assembly enjoined upon ministers to preach on the subject, he doubted if half of this Assembly complied. He considered the report read one of the most important that could be offered. The present state of things is a disgrace to the Church. He believed that if there had been of late a greater increase of the sons of the wealthy in the ministry, it was because the friends of such thought themselves more able to help them. The poor had nothing but poverty before them without resource. He was satisfied that what was done must be done against the views of a large portion of the ministry. He must speak on this subject. Some of them are of the opinion that it is wrong to depend on any human means. They imagine that they must live altogether by faith. It is not the laymen who are opposed to the support of the ministry. The difficulty has always been from the ministers themselves. Often they are too fastidious. Sometimes they apologize to their people for asking so often for subscriptions to benevolent objects. What could be expected but parsimoniousness in the people from such a course? He hoped the ministry would take a higher stand, and the proper result would be soon reached.

The Rev. Mr. Benedict had no doubt that the resolution would pass. He did not agree, however, with the remarks of the last speaker. He mentioned the case of an aged minister, who in his (Mr. Benedict's) youth was kept as a pauper, though he had long preached the Gospel during the Revolution, and had lost his property by the depreciation of funds.

Mr. Putnam of New York believed, that until the Assembly took the same position on the subject which they take on their Boards of Education, Missions, &c., all their resolutions would be in vain. He also knew of a minister who had preached fifty years among the Indians, who went round, late in life, from house to house, to beg. And this was not an isolated case. He knew another faithful man also reduced to beggary. He maintained that there is no proper ratio preserved in the salaries of clergymen. The minister receives to-day perhaps only $500, which is the very same as was received years ago; while the lawyer or physician (perhaps his own classmate) has doubled or trebled his income. ministers are worthy of their hire. He besought the members to be decided and earnest in this matter, and not be content with the mere passage of resolutions. This may be done over and over, and all would be in vain. If we pass these resolutions, give them life, and let them not lie as a dead letter.

The

Rev. Mr, Riggs said some provision for this class has long been a desideratum. But what can be done? That has been the difficulty. He contended that the Corporation in Philadelphia for effecting Life Insurance to the families of deceased ministers, would not answer the purpose we now have in view. The system for annual collections he also considered objectionable. The churches do not wish to be called on so often; and the fund would be liable to fall short. But the grand objection to it is, that its relief comes as charity to a pauper. The Church is bound to afford her ministers a comfortable support, and to provide for them when disabled; and she never can roll off the responsibility. We should have a fund to which he may come as a matter of right. He advocated the plan recommended by the Committee of a vested fund.

Rev. Dr. Marshall hoped that in adopting the resolutions before us,

members would think seriously as to what they were doing, and not allow the matter to lie as a dead letter. He would not only resolve, but prac

tise.

The first resolution was then unanimously adopted.

Resolution second coming up, proposing that each Presbyterian minister contribute $5 per annum to this fund, and each church $10.

The Rev. Mr. Baird moved to amend, so that instead of being requested to give $5 each annually, they be requested to give one per cent. on their income.

Rev. Mr. Riggs inquired if the contribution was expected to be continued during the minister's life.

Mr. Newkirk said the Committee had fixed the term for five years, to be renewed if desired.

Mr. Baird's amendment was then voted down.

Mr. Newkirk moved that the contribution be requested for the term of

five years.

Mr. Moody said he sympathized deeply with this general movement. He concurred with all that had been said by his brethren of the laity today, and he had risen chiefly to express his sympathy with their sentiments. He had his doubts, however, whether the plan now proposed was adequate to the purpose in view. What would the whole contribution amount to per annum? It would be $40,000, which would yield but $2,400 a year. How many would that support?

Dr. Rogers-That is for one year.

Mr. Moody-We want something better than that. See the extension of the Church and country. Let us have reference to what our Church may need some time hence. Let us do the thing thoroughly. How many can be sustained by this plan?

The question on the amendment as to the term of five years, was then put and carried.

Rev. Mr. Baird-Is this to be a permanent fund?

The Moderator-Yes, sir.

Mr. Baird thought the propriety of attempting to raise such a fund very doubtful. Spasmodic efforts, too, usually do mischief in the end. The matter of accumulating permanent funds is very questionable. He would rather trust Providence providing from year to year.

Mr. Newkirk That subject was thoroughly considered by the Committee, and the present plan was suggested only after much careful attention.

The second resolution was then adopted.

Resolutions 3d, 4th, 5th, and 6th, were read and adopted. [We shall publish this report when adopted entire. The plan it proposes is to raise a permanent fund, by annual contributions from ministers and churches, the income of which is to be divided among disabled ministers, &c.] The question being now upon the whole paper,

Mr. Cumming offered an additional one providing that in case of the death of the contributors, those who may hereafter become ministers may be authorized to draw just as if they had themselves paid in.

Mr. Newkirk-Why should those who come in without paying anything draw from the fund?

Mr. Cumming-Because if this plan succeeds, we shall have a fund of $200,000, and it is a fund raised by the Church.

The Rev. Mr. Williamson moved that the paper be recommitted to the Committee to perfect.

The Rev. Mr. Baird advocated this motion.

Rev. Mr. Williamson-There is an evident obscurity in the subject, and he would desire more time.

The question on recommitment was put and carried.

Rev. Dr. Marshall, in the absence of Dr. Rogers, the Chairman, presented again the Report on the Fund for Disabled Ministers, which had been recommitted, which was read by the Stated Clerk.

It was moved that the Report be adopted.

Rev. Mr. McCorkle said he was opposed to the establishment of a permanent fund, unless it were formed by bequests, or the donations of particular sums. He was opposed to the assessment of ministers and churches for this fund. Why not endow the Missionary Boards in this way? Our country is new, and in many places necessitous. They need all they can raise to support the Gospel at present. Again, such a fund is at war with the great principle of the Bible. We may endow our literary institutions, but he believed that the will of the Saviour is, that the Church should meet the support of the ministry continuously, as the wants arise. Again, the sum proposed is inadequate. This is another objection. He referred to the fund of the Methodist Church South, and showed that with an equal number of claimants in our own denomination, the fund would be insufficient. Is it to be supposed that the people will come up and establish such a fund for this object, and invest it as this proposes to do at six per cent.? Money is worth much more to many men, and they would rather give $60 a year than withdraw $1000 from their business. He proposed rather that a Committee should be appointed to ascertain first of all the facts of destitution, and then let the Assembly order a collection. Men will not give to an indefinite abstract object. Even worldly men will contribute to relieve an actual known case of distress. Besides the appointment of this Committee of Investigation, he would further propose that donations and bequests be invited for a general fund. He would observe by the way that it was strange that in this plan, which was professedly a proposition from the laity, and that, too, for the much commended, retiring, conscientious, poor, starving, pitied minister, that he (the minister) was yet considered able to pay one-half as much as his whole congregation, he being asked for $5, and they only for $10. He would, therefore, move that all that part of the Report which relates to the subject be stricken out, so that the resolution should require a Committee of Inquiry to be constituted, and to form a fund for the relief of those discovered to be destitute.

Rev. Mr. Benedict would vote against neither the amendment nor the original resolution. The simple question is, Does such destitution exist? and if it does, how is it to be met? He did not believe in the extent of the destitution supposed by some. The Moderator and he both knew that the oldest men in the ministry are the richest men. Instead of such having families dependent on them, they have families to support them! There are hundreds of such men in the ministry. He had children, and his congregation had always been kind to him, and he did not believe in labouring for a people that will not support you. The Book requires it, and it is idle, from any foolish notions, to dispense with these terms. He had his life insured, and he thought that every man ought to provide for

such a contingency. He denounced the idea that the ministry were pressed down and discouraged. There might be exception by accident, by disease, by particular Providence. But as a whole the ministry are happy. He thanked God that he had put him into it, and he valued the privilege as worth more to him than thousands.

Rev. A. Phillips would ask for no charity. The ministry was worthy of support. It had been said that the Church would certainly support her ministry. Why, then, does she not do it? No! The truth is, that the prevailing sentiment among men is that they must act by their minister as they would with an old horse-when he is worn out, turn him off, and get another. This plan of holding up a life of perpetual discouragement and perplexity to our young men is working sadly. What sort of principle is it to present to our young men, just entering the ministry, to say, You will be upheld while you have strength, but when aged and feeble, you will have nothing-you will be cast off! It ought to be definitely settled now, as a principle of the Church, that the aged will not be cast off, uncared for. Let a man entering the ministry be made sure of a competent support. Our ministers die before their time is half out; and why? Because they are worked to death. As for himself, he had no family. He had never married; for he had looked with distrust upon ministers' salaries. He hoped the plan would be adopted. It might be long indeed before the fund became considerable; but in a few years it would increase, and be serviceable. He urged the Assembly not to look at the present, but at the future, when the fund would be sufficient to meet all that was desirable. All our Boards had grown up from small beginnings, and so would this fund in time. The Church too, was one; and if so, ought not each part to be upheld by all the rest? In conclusion, he expressed his thanks to the Committee for their able report. It said all that was necessary.

Rev. Dr. Marshall called the attention of the Assembly to the fact that all the resolutions of the report had been already discussed, and the report had been recommitted only upon a certain point, and hence he thought the motion of Mr. McCorkle was out of order.

The Moderator declared that the recommitment was not with any particular instructions, and hence that the whole subject was opened by this presentation of the report.

Rev. Mr. Baird thought that the Moderator's previous ruling on the subject at its recommitment was different.

The Rev. Dr. Matthews said the Report had been prepared with great care. He called attention to the clause respecting the value to be attached to ministers' services. He wished to strike out the clause. The Assembly was not able to form any estimate of its value. Rev. Dr. Nevins used to stretch out his nervous, trembling hand, and say "that the preaching of the Gospel was worth millions to him." He thought that a man should preach as long as he had strength, and then when he could do nothing else, lie down willingly and die. He wished the aged and infirm to be thrown upon the people who would sustain them when they were known. He contended that if we have a fund for ministers we must have an almshouse. Do not let the Church raise a permanent fund to reduce her ministry to such a point as this; rather let each church say, No aged indigent minister shall be found within our bounds. had such an idea of the denomination to which he belonged as to believe that they would never let a known case of such destitution exist.

He

Rev. Dr. Hewit-Pauperism in the State is a problem that many find it hard to solve. If it is so there, it is much more so in the Church. It ought in some way to be provided for. It is no new thing.-It arose among the Apostles. The Master himself, too, has said, the poor ye shall always have with you. Something should be done. The difficulty is as to the mode. As was before said, in the debate on this subject, the value of the ministry is not to be estimated by dollars and cents. He might not have any strong confidence in the plan proposed, but yet it offered something tangible; and he hoped that if it were adopted it would lead to happy results.

Rev. Dr. Thornwell rose to move that the whole subject be indefinitely postponed. He would briefly give his reasons. They were, 1. Because the subject has been much discussed by the Assembly, and they are now in the twelfth day of their sitting. In the next place he did it, because there is a variety of opinions, and he feared to trust his opinions when formed under the excitement of debate on such a subject. Deep sympathy might unduly influence his judgment. If there was any man whom he esteemed and loved, it was an aged minister of the Gospel of God. If there was any one to whose support he was willing to subscribe liberally, it was to such a man. Now, under such views it is hard not to let the feelings unduly operate, as to the right of the ministry to an adequate support-it was unquestionable, and he was sure that God would visit with a righteous retribution any church that would allow her ministry to live neglected and destitute. He thought, however, that the matter should be looked at in the right light. Our people were not to be exonerated from their duty by the establishment of any such fund. On the contrary, let us bring our people constantly up to God's plan and God's command, that the Church shall sustain her ministry. Only let the duty be felt, and at length the difficulty will be removed. It was long before the subject of missions was set before the people in its true light. Let the same effort be made to enlighten the people in this matter, and in the end we shall succeed. In the next place he thought that all contingent necessities should be met by contingent demands upon the charity of the Church; otherwise evils will arise out of the very efforts to meet the difficulty. Let the plan be adopted that none entering the ministry shall suffer, neither as to himself, wife, or children; and though those now in the ministry might stand the trial, yet who does not see that it would hold out a powerful temptation to unworthy men to enter the ministry for the sake of the loaves and fishes? It would cut off from us, too, the brave spirits that now, by the grace of God, cast themselves on God's providence, and risk the trials of the ministry, to find that the righteous are never forsaken, nor their seed left to beg bread. There is another consideration. A man knows not what is good for him all the days of his vain life on the earth. Perhaps the Master knows that these trials are necessary for him. Are these trials of the ministery the effect of chance? Was the poverty of Lazarus the effect of chance? Sir, I would rather have been Lazarus in his sores, than the rich man in his riches. There is heroism, courage, energy, produced by these trials. Let us not take these means of hardening our ministry for the warfare away from them. It is a principle laid down by the Master, that hardship is absolutely necessary to form the highest grade of character. He rejoiced in the ministry of the Presbyterian Church. There was not such a body of