entered as of feventeen or eighteen pounds a year, only pro duced twenty-five or thirty.

Lord Alvanley agreed in the principle of the objection stated by his noble and learned friend, but he had rather have that claufe continued in the bill than no claufe, unlefs fome better criterion could be fuggefted. The informer must have Tome means to enable him to recover his penalties, and he knew not what other could be found. Would his noble and learned Friend have informers file a bill in equity against the fpiritual perfons he meant to bring an action against, previous to inftituting the profecution? Or by what means was the informer to afcertain the value of the living?

The Lord Chancellor faid, he would rather have the informer file a fhort bill of difcovery, rather than allow a claufe giving fo fallacious and incorrect a criticifin as the duties in the King's books afforded.

The Bithop of St. Asaph faid, the error of the King's books went further. There were many livings, the value of which were not entered at all in the King's books.

The Bishop of London confirmed this, efpecially in refpect to many livings in London and Westminster.

Lord Auckland faid, it was not poffible that the claufe, containing so abfurd and false a criterion, could be allowed to ftand in the bill.

At length the claufe was rejected.

The Committee then went through the other claufes, as far as the exemption claufe, when

Lord Alvanley rofe, and faid, that as that claufe'would certainly call for much difcuffion, and as his noble and learned Friend, as well as himself, muft be in his court in Westminfter Hall early in the morning, he thought that it was fit time to adjourn.

The Bishop of St. Asaph faid, undoubtedly the exemption would require a great deal of time to difcufs it, as he and other Right Rev. Prelates had many objections to it.

Lord Alvanley then moved, "That the noble Lord in the Chair do report progrefs, and afk leave to fit again." Lord Walfingham reported progrefs, and afked leave to fit again.

The farther fitting of the Committee was adjourned to Thurfday next, at three o'clock.

The clerk then fwore fome witneffes; and the Houfe adjourned.

HOUSE

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
TUESDAY, JUNE 14.

Mr. Hawkings Browne prefented the third report of the Committee appointed to confider the furvey of the Highlands of Scotland, which was ordered to lie on the table.

FISH COMPANY.

A report was prefented from the Committee on the bill for the establishment of a Company to reduce the high price of fifh, and to eftablish an additional Market for the fale thereof, in the city of London. On the motion for the second reading of the bill,

Mr. Hale rofe and objected to the bill, as it went materially to affect the intereft of a numerous clafs of individuals upon the fea coaft near Harwich, all of whom, he faid, had on that account figned a remonstrance against the bill paffing into a law. This remonstrance, he faid, he was ready to prefent in their names, and hoped that the Houfe, after confidering their cafe, would not fuffer any new bill to be in troduced for the purpofe of benefiting one fet of men, while it tended fo much to the prejudice of others.

Mr. Harvey alfo difapproved of the bill, and trusted that it would not receive the fan&tion of the Houfe. He, however, did not object to the principle of the bill, in fo far as it tended to reduce the price of fish in the city of London, which had there rifen to a most enormous height; but he difapproved of it, as he faw that it tended to render a useful inftitution, denominated the Marine Society, fubfervient to that object. This was, he faid, a fociety by which his Majefty's navy had been upon many occafions very much bene fited, in fo far as it had been the means of clothing and main taining a great number of boys reduced to unfortunate fituations, and of educating and inftruating them in maritime affairs, till they were fit for his Majefty's fervice. It was fuch a fociety of men, who had carried their fisheries to that degree of perfection which they had now reached, who were about to be injured by the introduction of this bill, and not thofe who had at this moment acquired the total monopoly of that moft ufeful article when brought into the metropolis. He thought that the moft proper mode to be followed, in order to accomplish the end propofed by this bill, was to regulate properly and more ftri&ly the prefent fish market in tae city of London. This bill, he obferved, had also in view an increase of the number of feamen, both for the ufe of the navy and mercantile tranfactions; and he, no doubt, thought

thought that fuch a Company might have that additional and beneficial effect, were this a time of peace; but now that we were involved in war, he begged the Houfe to recollect, that in the inftruction of two hundred boys propofed by the bill, a great number of men werealfo requifite for that very purpose of inftruction. He might venture to fay, that at leaft 150 men would by this means be prevented from affording their affiftance in the prefent fituation of the country, at a time when the affiftance both of men and boys, however uninterested the latter might be, was fo loudly demanded by the exigencies of the flate. He therefore begged leave to move, that instead of this bill being now read a fecond time, it thould be postponed till this day three months.

Sir William Geary oppofed this motion, and fupported the principles of the bill. He thought it would neither tend to injure the fishermen of Harwich, nor the Marine Society. He approved highly of the mode proposed to leffen the price of fith, which he thought was far greater than it ought to be. Though the capital of this Company was intended to be 50,000l. yet that circumftance was not, he thought, to occafion a monopoly of any trade whatever. He had no idea, however, of excluding that fet of people employed by the Company from being liable to be preffed into his Majesty's fervice. He thought that the means held forth by the prefent bill of fending 200 boys to be thus educated, for the fervice of his Majesty's navy, was an object of confiderable importance, and worthy the attention of the Houfe, notwithstanding that the advantage was confiderably narrowed by the war. He knew, that in the latter end of last war, the Marine Society were the means of furnishing a great number of useful feamen towards manning the navy; and he therefore thought that fuch an objection against the prefent bill might be done away. If the fum of 50,000l. fhould be reckoned too great a capital, he would rather agree to limit it to fome other fum, but the more limited that capital was the lefs good would arife from the Society.

Mr. H. Browne approved of the object and the principles

of the bill.

The Attorney General faid, that he could not doubt but that the measure propofed by the bill would tend to reduce the price of fish; but he took this opportunity of ftating, that he thought great inconvenience would arife to the House were they to admit of applications of this fort being made to Parliament, without a charter in the regular form. It was

on account of that irregularity that he begged to be filent in regard to fupporting the bill.

The bill was ordered to be committed to a felect Committee above stairs, confifting of the Members for the city of London and the maritime counties; and the petitioners against the bill were to be allowed to be heard, either by themselves or counsel.

WAYS AND MEANS:

Mr. Alexander prefented the report of the Committee of Ways and Means, on which

Lord Folkftone rofe, for the purpose, he faid, of making a few obfervations upon the taxes, which had been refolved upon by the Committee. He, for one, had great objections to the fyftem of what are called war taxes, or fuch as were only to be continued during the war. Such taxes might, he faid, be very proper and confiderate, but the giving them fuch an appellation was, he thought, the very means of creating a reluctance in the people to pay them. When people are very anxious for war, it was, no doubt, fair, not to burden their pofterity with a continuance of fuch a mode of taxation; but as the inhabitants of this country feem rather willing to fubmit to infults, and bear with Minifters, who were willing not to remonstrate, or when they did remonftrate, to acquiefce with the filence and total inattention with which their remomtrances were treated, he thought it was abfolutely wrong to lead people into a difinclination towards that war, or to create feltith feelings to render it unpopular. This was the reason of his objecting to the principles of war taxes, as at prefent brought forward. With relpect to the detail, he faid, he would not at prefent enter into it; but he only wished to avail himself of the opportunity of taking a view of the conduct of his Majefty's Minifters. He objected in toto to the fyftem propofed, of faying that we must provide only for a defenfive war. The faying fo only tended to difcourage the people, and every one knew, that Rome was never better defended than when waging offenfive war. The only means of offentive war which he could difcover that we at prefent pofefied, were three :-The first was, either openly to attack the power of France; or, fecondly, that we should attempt to connect ourselves with the powers of the continent, and to excite them to attack ourcommon enemy; or, thirdly, that we should endeavour to attack the Government of France, and the principles of that Government. With refpect to the first, he thought that our theans were very fall indeed, and cons fequently very little hope of fuccels could be entertained.

We

We might, no doubt, plan expeditions against France, and fucceed fo far as to get poffeffion of a town, or even an iland; but that would no ways tend to protect us, and would be attended with very little advantage to us in regard to injuring the enemy. As to the fecond and third modes of offenfive war, he contended that his Majefty's prefent. Minifters were, of all others, the leaft qualified to infpire the continental powers with any degree of confidence, in order to excite them to join in, or efpoufe our caufe; and they were affo the most improper fet of men to infpire confidence in any of the royalifts in France, for the purpose of procuring their co-operation with this country, to flrike at the Government of that country. He faid, he had found, from a view of the whole tranfactions of the Adminiftration, that they not only by their words, but by deeds, had abandoned all the allies of this country on the one hand, and the royalifts in France on the other. Were a negotiation at prefent to be entered into betwixt this country and any of the continental powers, for the purpofe of co-operation, he would afk any man, if the minifters of fuch powers would not be juftified in refufing to place any confidence in the prefent Adminiftration, from the manner in which they had already acted? They would fay, how can we be fure that you will not abandon us in the fame manner in which you abandoned the King of Sardinia? In the fame manner might the royalifts in France object to repofing any confidence in fuch Minifters, as they have feen how they abandoned others in fuch a cruel manner. Though offenfive war would be the beft calculated to animate the people of this country, our principal means of doing fo are thus in a manner deftroyed by fuch a conduct; but ftill they are his Majesty's Minifters; and on that account they fill have the confidence of his Majefty, and the fupport of this Houfe. He, for one, withed principally to aim at the deftruction of the Government of France, and therefore was an advocate for a more fpirited conduct. He was far from imagining that the peace was a peace of experiment, as had been flated, but he had all along been convinced, and the event had now juftified his conviction, that peace could not long fubfift betwixt the two Governments. In our prefent fituation, however, he was inclined to think that fuccels might yet follow our undertakings againft our ambitious foe, could we infpire all the continental powers, as well as the people of this country, with confidence and ardour in Our caufe, by openly and avowedly, without any concealt VOL. IV. 1802-3.

men.