remedy it. That if the next crops came fafe, they would be the ruin of the houfes concerned in them, who, having no market for them by export, would not be able to meet 'the bills that would accompany them. He affured the House he was not inftigated by thofe who are fo much interested, to take the part he now did; for his conftituents could not have known it, fo as to apply to him for the purpose; he did it as an act of duty, which he thought he owed them. He repeated, that he neither asked for exemption nor diminution, but only a fufpenfion. He therefore moved, "That it be an inftruction to the Committee to infert a claufe in the bill to empower his Majefty's Council to fufpend the faid duties on fugar whenever, and for fuch period of time as it fhould appear to them neceffary fo to do."

The Speaker informed the House, that he was of opinion, the motion was neither regular nor neceffary. The Committee was the proper place for fuch a motion, and therefore it was irregular; and, if irregular, it must be unneceffary.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer fupported this opinion, and the House immediately went into the Committee. Mr. Alexander in the chair.

General Gascoyne then moved a clause to the same effect. On the question that the clause be read a fecond time,

Mr. Vanfittart rofe, and denied the affertions of the hon. General as to the home confumption, and infifted, that, notwithstanding the duties, the confumption during the last war increased no less than 700,000 cwt. It was the fame as to the exports; for we are not now excluded from any ports on the continent, from which we were not shut out during laft war, except Hamburgh; and it is remarkable, that in the year during which we were excluded from that port, our exports were far greater than during any other year of the war. The hon. General had said, that the imports of fugars were encouraged by the affertions of Minifters relative to peace; but this he denied, and faid, Minifters had uniformly cautioned the public as to the poffible danger of risking too much on that fpeculation,

Generat Tarleton faid, that taxes must be impofed, and the country fuppported. If at any time he fhould receive instructions from his conftituents on any fubject, he should be happy to obey them, if confonant to his own opinion; but his conftituents had returned him free, and he hoped he should always act on the fame principle. Look, said he, to any

period of ten years during the last century, and you will find that, both in peace and war, the town of Liverpool has increafed in opulence, population, and confequence; and he believed, that if his hon. colleague would leave the inhabitants to follow their own fpeculations in regard to trade and commerce, they will yet be found as forward in advancing the commerce of their town, and the intereft of the nation in general, and would as cheerfully pay the taxes they thould be liable to be charged with, as any other part of this

Country.

General Gafcayne faid, it would have been more for the credit of the right hon. Gentleman, if he had made his propofition fooner. At the time the Houfe was called on first to agree to this duty, they were left in total ignorance of a fact then known to Minifters, and which fince came out, namely, that there was not a fingle port open to the trade of this country on the continent of Europe; and the first communication to the mercantile intereffs on this topic was by a British frigate, ftationed at the mouth of the Elbe, which warned the Britifh fhips, laden with fugar, and approaching that river, not to enter, as they would certainly fall into the hands of the enemy; and thus thofe fhips, with their cargoes, were fent back to this country, with thofe very cargoes which were purchafes under the affurance of permanent peace, given by the right hon. Gentleman. The hon. Gentleman fpeaks of the profits arising to Liverpool from the prefent war; it is but a fhort month fince it has commenced: how then was a criterion to be formed for fuch a conclufion? An hon. General, too, (his hon. Friend) had talked generally of the improvement of the town and trade of Liverpool: no argument he had ufed could be conftrued into a denial of that general profperity; but he, (Gen. Galcoyne) was fpeaking of a particular branch of trade, namely, the Weft Indian; his only object was, not to evade,. but only to fufpend the duty and he hardly thought the hon. General would be bold enough to deny that the merchants of Liverpool wifhed for fuch a fufpenfion. The hon. General had defired him to leave the merchants of Liverpool to themselves; this, indeed, had been pretty much the practice of the hon. General himself; but, melancholy indeed was the profpect, if the filence of the treasury bench was to be taken for their opinion upon the fubject. He did think that fome relief would be thought neceffary to thofe now ftanding on the brink of ruin.

The

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that no fuch inference as that drawn by the hon. Member was to be fairly founded on the conduct of his Majefty's minifters ; namely, that no communication whatever was to be opened for the trade of this country in any of the ports of the continent. It would be difficult indeed, either for power or ingenuity to prevent the commodity in question from finding its way into the conti nent, of which this country held a monopoly, and which there as well as here was become a neceffary of life. But if refe rence was had to the actual price of fugars at this moment, comparatively with that which they bore immediately before the war; if it was confidered that the article had rifen from 33s. to 47s. per cwt. fince the commencement of hoftilities, it was a pretty strong proof the article fuffered no deterioration in price in confequence of the war. The hon. Meme ber, therefore, on this ground, must admit that his conftie tuents were in a better fituation than they were fix weeks ago. With fo much a higher price, and no diminished confumption in this country; with a large drawback upon exportation, and with a total monopoly of the trade in Bri tish hands, he could fee no ground for apprehenfion either to the Weft India merchants or any other fet of men concerned in trade. So far from the additional duty of 4s. being an exorbitant impoft, in the circumstances of the country, many judicious perfons, well converfant in the trade, were of opit nion, that it would well have borne a duty of 38. more; which it was, however, not his intention to propofe; though, had it not been for fome calamities which the Weft-India trade had of late fuffered, he should have been difpofed to lay on a duty of 6s, instead of 4s..

General Gafcoyne replied, that it was not a reduction.or an evafion of duty he fought, but a power of suspension; to be vested in whom? In his Majefty in council, and in the right hon. Gentleman, as the principal adviser of his Majesty in council.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer obferved, there was a claufe in the act empowering Parliament to alter the prefent act at any time within the prefent feffion, if neceffary; and the chief reafon for his refifting the motion of the hon. Gentleman was upon conftitutional grounds, namely, that he did not with fuch a power as, that proposed, to be vefted any where but in Parliament, because it would be a very dangerous and unconstitutional precedent. With refpect to the duty, he did not conceive it was one, which, after the rising of ParVOL. IV. 1802-3. liament,

liament, could by any means operate injuriously to the commodity.

Mr. Baillie thought taxes in the prefent crifis neceffary to fupport the country; that fugar was as fair an object of taxation as any other article of confumption; and that it was as well to fubmit cheerfully now, as in another year, when it would be inevitable.

Sir William Young thought the whole system of the new taxes proposed by the Minister extremely fair and impartial; and he himself, as a perfon concerned in Weft India property, cheerfully acquiefced in the prefent tax, and thought it could not be fairly complained of by the British merchant ; as, in fact, the West India planter must be the principal sufferer.

The conversation was continued at confiderable length, in which Mr. Dent, Mr. Johnston, Mr. Vanfittart, Mr. Baron, and several other members fpoke; and General Gascoyne, conceiving it to be the fenfe of the Committee, withdrew his motion.

Sir William Pulteney brought up the bill for granting to his Majesty the fum of 20,000l. for improving the roads and bridges in the Highlands of Scotland, which was read a firft, and ordered to be read a fecond time on Monday.

The militia fubaltern officers peace allowance bill; the Irish qualification bill; and the affeffed taxes confolidation bill, were feverally read a firft, and ordered to be read a fecond time next day.

Mr. Alexander prefented the report of the committee on the foreign feamen's bill. The amendments were agreed to, and the bill ordered to be read a third time the next day.

Mr Pole Carew brought up the report of the Committee on the Irish parfonage houfes bill, which was ordered to be printed, and read a third time on Tuesday.

Mr. Baillie moved, that the proper officer be ordered to lay before the Houfe an account of all the British and foreign veffels and their tonnage, which had entered inwards to the ports of Bristol, in the years 1802 and 1803, with an account of all goods imported into that port, and not brought coaftways, during the years 1801 and 1802, diftinguishing each year. Ordered.

The Irish militia transfer bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a fecond time on Monday next.

Mr. Wickham obtained leave to bring in a bill, to prevent unlawful combinations of workmen in Ireland.

On

On the motion for the fecond reading of the cotton weavers' bill,

Col. Stanley moved, that the minutes of the evidence taken before the Committee to whom the petitions of the cotton weavers were referred, be laid before a Committee upon this bill, and that the feveral petitions for and against it should be confidered by the faid Committee.

The House in a Committee went through the loan bill, which was ordered to be reported the next day.

The medicine duty bill, and the Committee of Ways and Means were poftponed till Monday.

The British and Irish cotton regulation bill was read a fecond time, and ordered to be committed the next day. Adjourned till next day.

HOUSE OF LORDS,

SATURDAY, JUNE 18.

All the bills on the table paffed a stage each. The Northampton ordnance bill, and feveral others, were read a third time.

CLERGY FARMING AND RESIDENCE BILL,

The Committee having been refumed, they proceeded to the confideration of the monition claufe, which occafioned a good deal of converfation, and fome amendments were moved. The 28th, 29th, and 30th claufes paffed, fubject to the fame circumftances. When the Committee came to that which enacted, "that no cath fhould be taken by any vicar," it was much difcuffed between Lord Auckland, the Lord Chancellor, and the Bishop of St. Afaph. A difficulty appeared to be enteriained by thofe who thought the claufe ought to ftand, as to the manner in which thofe vicars who had taken the oath of refidence could be discharged from its obligation.

The Lord Chancellor and Lord Alvanley took the lead in the difcuffion; and as foon as the latter had concluded his obfervations,

The Lord Chancellor role and faid, he really did not know by what means any man who had folemnly taken an oath, was to discharge his confcience from the obligation of it.. He had no conception that, having once taken the oath, he:

Ee 2

could