of fuch a commutation. He thought that the principle of the militia fyftem ought, in this as in other inftances, to be ftrictly adhered to. He was, therefore, inclined to contend, that unless perfonal fervice was given, every individual balloted for fhould be compelled to procure a fubftitute. At all events, if the principle of commutation was to be admitted, he could not agree to its being admitted on its prefent footing. The fine as now proposed to be levied would fall equally on all ranks of the community. Among thofe orders of fociety from whom our army was to be fupplied, the fine would operate as a compulfion of per fonal fervice. Among the higher orders of fociety, no fuch effect would be produced. Thofe unwilling to ferve, and to whom the payment of the fine is a matter of no confideration, would, by offering a high bounty, procure a substitute, and avoid all the trouble and inconvenience which the production of one might obtain. He was anxious either to put it out of the power of thofe ballotted for to procure relief by the payment of a fine, or, if that could not be effected, to impofe the fine in a proportion corresponding to the fituation in life in which they are placed. Perfons of rank and ability, if they would not contribute their perfonal fervices, ought to be under the neceffity of employing their influence in procuring able fubftitutes; and, if forgetful of all that they owe to themselves and the country, they are reluc tant in granting their equitable fhare in fupport of the public honour and dignity, then it was but fair that they ought to be made to contribute in that proportion in which they can be made to commute their fervices. In the Committee, he trufted that this part of the fubject would undergo particular investigation, and he just now thought it his duty to call the attention of the Houfe to it by a few obfervations on the prefent occafion. The object of the fine, if it was at all calculated to produce any advantage, was to force thofe on whom it was levied to ufe all their exertions in procuring fubili:utes, and at in this inftance in the capacity of recruiting officers for the fervice. Unless it was impofed in fuch a way as to produce this effect, it would be totally ufelefs, and not ufelefs alone, but highly inexpedient and dangerous. He had little more to add to the obfervations which he had taken the liberty of fubmitting to the Houfe. He was willing to give a right hon. Friend of his (Mr. Windham) full credit for the purity of his intentions in oppofing the bill. He allowed that in all that he faid on the. fubject, he was animated

animated by the most earnest defire to promote the best interefts of his country. He knew that no one could be more defirous of taking every step to rescue Europe from the calamities, the difgrace and the mifery with which fo great a proportion of it was now oppreffed. He was fenfible that in no man's heart there burned a more ardent flame of at tachment to the best interests of mankind, or was more defirous of making any exertions which in their confequences might relieve nations now groani ngunder the moft gallant tyranny. That his right hon. Friend would be the foremost in fupporting these great objects, he cordially admitted ; and it was not from any difference of opinion refpecting their importance, that he was at all inclined to give the bill his warmest fupport. Their opinions on the fubject were in unifon, but it was because the bill was better calculated than any other mode which occurred to his mind to hold out a profpect that, when a favourable opportunity prefented it Telf, a large difpofable force may be moft fpeedily prepared.. Mr. Pitt, after a few more observations, concluded by vot ing for the fecond reading of the bill.

The Secretary at War faid, that there should be a claufe introduced into the bill to enable the men belonging to this force to volunteer their fervices for the army.

Mr. Windham faid, his opinion concerning this meafure ftill continued unchanged. So far from being calculated for offenfive operations, it was not even fit for defence; and if in confequence of fuch an ill-digefted plan the country fhould perish, then adieu to all offenfive operations, and to every chance of faving Europe from fubjugation and ruin! He would lay out of his view every thing which, at this moment, was neceffary to bring the ftruggle we were engaged in to a speedy termination: he would look at the immediate means of defence about to be adopted; and on this principle he could not without dread and terror behold the measure now propofed. His right hon. Friend on the other fide of the Houfe had afferted, that this measure would affift the recruit, ing of the army: though he differed directly in opinion with him. he would not argue on that topic at prefent. He would admit. that by the prefent meafure, more men might be procured at the prefent moment than could be got any other way: but, in confidering the value of fuch a force, it was neceffary not to confider the number, but the quality of the men to be. raifed. An experienced officer could at once point out the difference between recruits taken into a regular regiment of VOL. IV. 1802-3.

the

the line, regularly trained and well difciplined, and a number of new-raised men forming new regiments without the advantages of training or difcipline. But this diftinction never entered the minds of fome gentlemen; with them “a regiment is a regiment; no matter what materials it is compofed of." When his right hon. Friend talked of thefe new troops, he reprefented them as likely to poffefs all the qualitics of a regular army, because they were to be under the direction of experienced officers. Now upon this point he wifhed the Houfe would for a moment confider, who and what fort of men thefe officers were. Without meaning to fpeak any thing in difparagement of officers on the half-pay lift, he muft affert, that it would not be poffible to get officers from that lift of the fame defcription of those who are exactly ferving in regiments of the line. Undoubtedly many were put on half-pay for no other reafon but because their regiments were reduced; others in confequence of wounds which they had received, and of being otherwife difabled. The very caufe for which the latter defcription of officers were put on half-pay, proved they were unfit for actual fervice. There were alfo officers, whofe conduct had been fuch as to exclude them from the fervice, but who were permitted to retire upon half-pay. What advantage then could be derived from the fervices of fuch men as these, or were they fit to be put into command again? Befides, it could not be faid that officers on half-pay had the experience of those who were in constant and a&ive service, nor that they could be as useful as officers at the head of well difciplined men. Therefore, confidering the manner in which this force was to be brought together, he did not think it was one that could in any degree conduce to the fafety of the country. With refpect to the danger in which the country was placed, what was he to understand by that danger, except an invasion of this country on the part of France. Did any one know when this invafion would be attempted? Suppose the French fhould come upon us at the end of two months, what fort of a fituation fhould we be in then, with a bill not paffed? And if it was paffed and acted upon, we might have the enemy invading us in the midst of the ballot for this new militia. And if they were raifed before the enemy came, what time fhoud we have to put the men in a state that would enable them to defend us? What could we expect from an uninformed and undifciplined mafs of men, diffatisfied perhaps

with their novel fituation; their minds irritated at the recollection of being taken from their families? Could any expectation, therefore, be formed from this "army of referve?"-a name at which he thuddered. Better would it

be to have an irregular mafs at once, without any appearance of an army or of difcipline. Such was the force that had for a long time prevailed in La Vendée, where the great republican armies, that had been fweeping every thing before them in all other places, were continually defeated. The very ftrength of those people confifted in their weaknefs. Like a reed, they bent under and withstood the force of the blast, and rofe again when the storm was over. The whole of that force in La Vendée was irregular, and it withstood the armies of France until the year 1796. Let us, therefore, inftead of this useless army of referve, have an irregular force, and not a force which appeared as if it were the last resort of the country. Great, indeed, would our danger be, if we had nothing more to decide the fate of the country. Were the enemy to take the city of London, that would not, under a proper fyftem of national defence, decide the fate of the country. There would be much more danger to the country in the capture of our dock yards or arfenals. He objected to the prefent measure, becaufe the force about to be raised was a falfe force, and led to falfe conclufions. He objected to it, because men would look to others more to themselves. These would have nothing to do but to pay down a fum of money for perfons to ferve in their ftead; and then they would fay, here are men who will defend us." They would no longer conceive it neceffary to make any exertions themfelves. The French, with their immenfe population, had left the country almoft defolate, by raifing confcripts, and availed themselves of levies en maffe, in a way which the government of Great Britain could not be juftified in resorting to. The government must rely on the voluntary exertions of the people, which were to be ufed in a variety of ways. But the prefent measure would not only check all exertions, but create difcontent in the country. He would much rather fee a confcription for filling up regiments of the line: and in order to induce men to enter, there might be a provifion made, that their fervices were not to extend beyond Europe. He was fure fuch a meafure would be really advantageous. Let Gentlemen confider the time it would take before this force could be got ready; before it could be got out of barracks, before it could be drawn up in a line; before the men could

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have

have their new clothes; before they could be breeched.

But

whether it could or could not be got leady in time, this was certain, that there must ever be an eternal difference between the army and the militia. It was in the nature of the militia, that it could never be brought to fuch perfection as an effective force. As much had been done to improve it as poffible; and it was aftonishing that it had been fo much improved as it was. The militia was a machine which had been wrought up to all the perfection of which it was capable; but it never would anfwer for the purpofe of offenfive or defenfive operations; but the prefent plan he would oppofe, because it refembled a militia force

Mr. Pitt role in explanation: he faid his right hon. Friend had misunderstood him in one or two points. What he faid was, that this plan would furnish better means for recruiting the army, than any that could be adopted for two or three years to cone. As to an irregular force, he had faid, it was one which certainly ought to be attended to, because he was perfuaded, that, befides the army now to be raised, there' ought to be another army of reserve.

Lord Cafilereagh perfectly agreed with the fentiments which had been delivered by a right hon. Gentleman oppofite to him (Mr. Windham), when he looked at the hoftile intentions of the enemy; but, when he looked at the means which they had in their power for the accomplishment of fuch intention, he confidered it as nothing but pufillanimity; he confidered it, in fact, as a meannefs unworthy the character of the country, to contemplate that power with any degree of apprehenfion. He could by no means give his affent to the opinion of the right hon. Gentleman, that the poffeffion of our capital was but a fecondary object; he could not for a moment entertain the idea that the enemy were capable of making any impreffion on our fhores. The right hon Gentleman had alluded to the inhabitants of La Vendée, and yet, he confeffed, he was utterly at a lofs to account for the transition which he had made, or by what train of reasoning he could afterwards fuppofe that the prefent force would be found inadequate to the purpofes for which it was defigned. This, he confeffed, appeared to him as giving a fort of colouring to his arguments which could not be fupported by any regular courfe of reafoning. He trufted in the unanimity, the feelings, and the established cool and determined bravery of the country, not only that they would manfully defend their invaluable free conftitution, which was the admiration and

the