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EXCISE DUTIES.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved, that the Houfe refolve into a Committee on the bill for raifing additional duties of excife.

Mr. Plumer rofe, he faid, before the Houfe fhould go into a Committee, to make a propofal or motion to the Houfe. As there were four articles united in the prefent bill, to fome of which he entertained objections, he thought that he was entitled to move, that there thould be an instruc- tion given to the Committee to divide all of these articles into two or more feparate bills. If this was not done, hẹ imagined, that there was a probability of fome Members voting against all the four articles, while they might happen to have objection against one only.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer obferved, that if the mode adopted in this prefent bill had been, in the leaft degree, inconfiftent or irregular, it could not poffibly have been allowed to advance to its prefent ftage. He was entitled to affume, that the forms had in no manner been violated, yet, at the fame time, he was far from being difpofed to adhere to rigid principles of form, could it be fhewn to him that.. any advantage could refult from an infringement of those forms. It was the object of the prefent bill to grant additional duties of excife on four different articles, by the fame mode of collection. Such a method was entirely confiftent with practice, convenience, and common fenfe. During the twenty years in which he had fat in Parliament, he was almost certain the journals of the Houfe could not afford an inftance of fuch a practice having been adopted. In the Committee, and in every ftage of the bill, every Member would have a fufficient opportunity of stating his objections to any particular article, and of having his amendments adopted, if found reafonable.

On the motion being put, it was carried that no fuch infruction was neceffary to be given to the Committee.

The question was then put, that it be an instruction to the Committee to divide the bill into two or more parts, when it puffed in the negative.

MALT DUTY IN SCOTLAND.

The Houfe then refolved into a Committee upon the additional excife bill, Mr. Alexander in the chair.

The

The Chancellor of the Exchequer rofe, and with respect to the additional duty on malt, as relating to Scotland, recapitulated the regulations made on the malt-tax of Scotland comparatively with England, from the establishment of the union till the prefent time. At the time of the union it was, on full confideration, laid down as a principle, that the malttax in Scotland thould be half the rate of that tax in England; and in every fubfequent increafe upon the malt-tax with England, half as much fhould be laid upon inalt in Scotland. This rate was adjusted, and continued until the laft S: ffion of Parliament, principally on account of the b. ckward flate of agriculture in Scotland, which was unfavourable to the growth of barley; and confequently the almoft exclufive ufe of an inferior fpecies of grain, calied beer or bigg, in the manufacture of malt, and its fole ufe in the breweries and and distilleries of Scotland. Malt made from this grain was by no means fo productive of spirit, or flrong beer, as barley, and hence it was always thought a fair principle to charge it with an inferior duty. But of late years, the agricul use of Scotland having in a very rapid degree improved, and the culture of barley introduced there with very confiderable fuccefs, the produce being, on an average, equal in quality to that of the barley counties of England in general, and therefore, in the laft feffion, it had been thought fair to equalize the duty on barley malt in England and Scotland, in order to put the brewers and diftillers in each country upon an equal footing with each other. Laft year the additional duty of one fhilling per bushel was impofed on Scotch barley malt, as upon English; and now it was proposed to subject it to the additional duty of two thillings, as in England, upon the fame principle as a war tax; but instead of charging the malt from beer or bigg, with one half the duty, it was propofed to charge it with fixteen pence. It was his wish to have inftituted a Committee of Enquiry this feffion, for the purpose of fairly afcertaining the comparative quality of the malt in both countries, from a fair comparison of average product: and on this principle to charge Scotch malt with only its fair proportioh, whatever that might be. For this defirable purpose, however, the feffion was too far advanced; but he trusted, that early in the next feffion, a Committee would be adopted for the purpose of this enquiry, and of obtaining every poffible information on the fubject.

Sir James Sinclair Erskine had no objection for the prefent to accede to the propofed tax, provided the right hon. Gen tleman would pledge himfelf to the Committee he had mentioned, early in the next feffion of Parliament.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer did repeat his pledge.

The Master of the Rolls faid he highly approved of the propofition of his tight. hon. Friend, to let this fubject be inves tigated by a select committee, who fhould afcertain the du ties that ought to be paid by England and Scotland; for it was very well known, that the grain of Scotland was of a quality much inferior to that of England.

Sir William Erskine and Mr. Cha les Grant thought fuch an investigation would be highly proper and neceffary.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in reply to fome obfer. vations made by Lord Archibald Hamilton, faid it was his intention, early in the next feffion, to move the appointment of a felect committee, to confider of the relative duties which ought to be paid by both countries.

Mr. Plumer took notice of the duty paid by malt in the beginning of the American war, which amounted to no more than 6s. per quarter; if the duty now proposed to be laid on was to take place, the whole amount of the malt tax would be 345, 84. per quarter. Such a tax as this, coupled with the intended tax on land, would form a burthen fo heavy that it could not be borne. He would therefore move, as an amendment, that instead of an additional duty of 2s. there be laid a duty of only Is. per bufhel on malt.

Mr. I amb feconded this amendment.

Mr. Charles Dundas fupported it; because this new tax would be a great hardship on maltfters, whofe stock in hand was now to pay the additional duty.

The Secretary, at War faid, that as the representative of a great agricultural county, which must be materially affected by this tax, he felt it his duty to fupport the amendment propofed by his hon. Friend. The malt-tax had been car ried to an extent much greater than it thould have been ; and much greater than fhould ever have exifted with regard to the produce of land. His constituents were as loyal men as any in the country; and they were ready to contribute every thing in their power towards its defence; but he confidered the prefent tax as a great grievance, which would have a very injurious operation on agriculture. The Chancellor of the Exchequer expreffed his fears, that if the Committee adopted the amendment juft propofed, they VOL. IV. 1802-3.

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would forego the principal means of carrying on the juft and neceffary war in which we were engaged; as the public would be deprived of no lefs a fum than two millions fterling. Unless a tax was to be laid on, which would carry into the pocket of the public the whole amount of that fum, y we should forego a confiderable portion of what the public was justly entitled to. Either this tax must take place to the whole extent of what was intended, or the brewer would have a most enormous profit on his commodity; unless a regulation was made that would impofe a great hardship upon him. If he was reftricted with regard to the price of his beer, he would alter the quality of it fo as to do a great injury to the public. What he propofed was, that the brewer fhould have alprofit no greater than the amount of the tax; and if the tax was to be less than the amount propofed, the brewer would ftill charge an additional halfpenny per pot for his porter, and his profit would be equal to the fum of which the public would be thus deprived. He would declare to the Committee that he had maturely confidered this fubject, and from every thing he could learn concerning it, he knew not where to find a mode of carrying on the war fo little liable to objection as that of the prefent duty. If the Houfe was determined not to have taxes for the vigorous profecution of the war, it was better to make peace at once on any terms that could be obtained. Gentlemen must do fo, unless they made up their minds to fupport the conteft they were engaged in. Every body knew that great facrifices must be made, and great privations fuffered, in order to carry us through this struggle. All the different claffes of the community must bear their fhare of the burthens, and the best mode was to lay them on manfully at once. He was fure that the lower claffes, who must always feel the weight, even of taxes laid upon the rich, were alive to the fituation of the country, and ready to contribute their share to the exigencies of the public. He had had many opportunities of knowing the fentiments of the lower claffes of people; and he could fay they were manly and patriotic in the highest degree. He faw them grieve for any misfortune that might have befallen their country; and he faw them participate in the joy occafioned by any favourable turns of fortune. He faw them cheerfully contritributing their mite towards the voluntary contributions which had been raifed in a period of great difficulty. Every body knew that an enthufiaftic fpirited patriotifm pervaded

this clafs of people,who compofed our fleets and our armies. They knew that their beft intereft was to fuftain the liberty and the conflitution of this country; which could only be done by making great facrifices. He could not agree with thofe who faid the prefent measure would be injurious to agriculture. The continuance of the tax would be only commenfurate to the continuance of the war, and if this tax was now got rid of, he could affure the Committee, that it would not be poffible to put another in its place which would not be liable to fill greater objections. With regard to the maltfters, he was ready to afford them every poffible relief as to paying the duty on the ftock in hand. But if the present motion was to be carried, the fum of 1,300,000l. would be placed in the pockets of the brewers; and therefore he should confider himself as abandoning his duty, if he liftened to any propofition by which the produce of the tax could be limited. Let Gentlemen for a moment confider the nature and the courfe of the war we were engaged in, and fay, whether we ought to fhrink from a tax on tea, or on malt:→ a thing which was trifling compared to the magnitude of the object it was to accomplish.

Sir Robert Buxton faid, he confidered the prefent as an unequal tax upon landed property. Befides, he did not think the tax would be fo productive as was expected, and wished that, inftead of this, a tax might be laid on the notes of Country bankers.

Mr. Vanfittart pointed out the following as the times when maltters fhould be required to pay the duty on the stock in hand: The first instalment on the 15th of September; the fecond on the 24th of October; the third on the 16th of December; and fourth on the 15th of January.

Mr. Atkins and Mr. Whitbread wifhed the first instalment might not be made till the 1ft of November. After a long converfation, in which feveral other Members took a part, the Houfe divided. For Mr. Plumer's amendment, 11Against it, 61. The bills were then ordered to be reported. The other orders of the day being difpofed of, the House adjourned.

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