HOUSE OF COMMONS.

TUESDAY, JUNE 28.

The report of the Committee on the wet docks' bill, and the further report of the Committees on the collection of the affeffed tax duties, and additional affeffed tax bills, were deferred till the next day.

The Scotch affeffed duties' bill was read a fecond time, and committed' for the next day.

The further confideratiou of the report of a real property bill, was deferred to Friday following.

SCOTCH MILITIA FAMILIES.

On the order of the day being read for the further confideration of the report of the Committee on this bill,

Sir J. S. Erskine faid, he meant to propose an alteration in one part of the bill, where, in the low counties of Scotland different provifions were made with regard to the appointment of deputy lieutenants, on account of the difficulty of finding perfons duly qualified. He moved, as proper perfons were not to be found duly qualified according to the act. of Parliament, the magiftrates of the royal boroughs, and other magiftrates, fhould be allowed to act in that capacity-which was agreed to. He then obferved, that as Edinburgh and Glasgow were to provide for the families of their own: militia, it would be right that the returns fhould be made to the town-clerks in those places; and moved an amendment to that effect, which was also agreed to.

Mr. Kinnaird, having been on the Committee to which this bill was referred, wished to explain to the House, that the reason why they did not recommend provifions to be made for the families of fubftitutes was, from the local circumstances of Scotland, which would render fuch a measure fatal to the general fubfiftence.

The report was then agreed to, and the bill ordered to be read a third time on Thurfday following.

SOUTHERN WHALE FISHERY.

The Houfe having, purfuant to the order of the day, refolved itfelf into a Committee on this bill,

Mr. Lee drew the attention of the Committee to a circumftance, which he could not, without neglect of his duty, pass over on this occafion-he meant the great advantage which English had over Irish veffels concerned in this trade. Befides granting a licence for the trade, the Eaft India Company

alfo

alfo allowed a confiderable bounty on the arrival of the first cargoes, who brought the greateft quantity of whale oil or blubber into any of the ports of England, while no fuch advantage was held out for cargoes of a fimilar description, which fhould arrive at Irish ports. This benefit was also increased by further encouragements from the customs, while veffels failing from Ireland were excluded from them all. It was plain, however, that this was in direct oppofition to the act of union, which stipulated for an equality in point of trade to the vessels of both ports of the united country, and yet nothing could be more unequal than the terms on which a veffel would fail for the fouth fea whale fishery to and from the port of Waterford, and thofe on which the fame voyage would be performed from any of the ports of England. He gave notice of his intention to move for a clause to remedy the defect.

Lord Glenbervie replied, that if what the hon. Gentleman advanced, exhibited any well-founded complaint on the part of Ireland, it would undoubtedly receive all the attention it deferved. But, on more mature examination, he believed it would appear, that nothing was more difconnected than the encouragement here propofed, and the commercial provifions made by the articles of union, and the general fubject of the complaint now made. In the year 1795, in the infancy of this trade, a premium was allowed on the greatest cargo of whale oil or blubber from the South Seas; and, though we had no union at that time, the Houfe, in its liberality, confented to open that trade to Ireland. The premiums paid could not have been more than 10,000l. which were neceffarily confined to the ports of England, where the money was paid, and even raifed and defrayed out of the English customs, without at all coming into the account of the national expenditure or revenue. By the act of last feffion, it was thought proper that the premium should be allowed to remain five years longer. The prefent was only a continuation of that act, and the money being paid out of the collection of the English cuftoms, formed no part whatever of the aggregate of the Irish contributions. Should it, however, be thought advisable to make a fimilar provifion from Ireland, he should for one be happy to fhew his regard for, and gratitude to, the Irish nation, for the kindnefs he experienced while in an official fituation there, by giving it all affiftance and attention in his power; but then it must neceffarily be brought forward, as a diftinct and fpe

cific measure. Were this bill to be now flopped in its progrefs, it would be attended with the greatest inconvenience to many individuals, who had made preparations, relying on the faith of the bill being paffed. The trade, after all, he faid, was only a boon from the Eaft India Company, as it would not be granted without a licence from them, which they had liberally granted.

Mr. Lee rejoined, that if the fum of 101,000l. was neceffary to be granted for the encouragement of this trade in England, it was furely proper that the fame, or a proportionate fum, fhould be appropriated out of the Irish customs, for the encouragement of the trade from Ireland. He protested against the propofitions for a distinct bill, because, where a joint trade was to be carried on by two united nations, the mode, regulations, and advantages of it fhould be equal to both. Any other method, in his opinion, would be objectionable.

Mr. IV. Dundas acknowledged, that it might be very defirable to have a general measure for all. The hon. Gentleman, however, would have the kindness to recollect, that this was not a new measure with England, but a continuation of an old one. The hon. Gentleman was at liberty to bring in a bill, if he thought proper, for the object he proposed; but it was not right that this bill fhould, on that account, be delayed or stopped in its progress.

General Gascoyne faid, if he was rightly informed, not a fingle Irish fhip had ever been engaged in the South Sea whale fishery. For his own part, he withed, and had all along been defirous, that the whole trade of both countries. fhould be placed on the fame footing in point of bounties, taxes, and regulations. At the fame time, however, he thought it fomewhat unreafonable that Ireland fhould demand to participate in a fund, which we had established fome years. back for ourselves, and towards which the had never contributed.

Mr. Lee fill infifted that it was not confiftent with the equality of union, that a ship failing from, and returning to England, fhould be intitled to a bounty of 400l. and that a fhip making the fame voyage from and to Ireland, fhould not be intitled to a bounty of 400 pence. Were fo particular an advantage given to the port of London, he fancied that Bristol, Liverpool, and other places, would not be flaw in making their complaints. He then moved a clanfe, enacting, that any fhip failing from or to any of the ports of Ireland

Ireland on this trade, fhould be entitled to the fame advantages of premium as veffels failing from the ports of Eng

land.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer reminded his hon. Friend, that as the effect of his motion would be, to grant a bounty to the ports of Ireland, it could not be done confiftently with the orders of the Houfe, but by an inftruction founded on the report of a previous Committee. No fuch Committee could fit that day, but his hon. Friend would have an opportunity of moving for it the next day, fhould he think proper

fo to do.

Mr. Lee then confented to withdraw his motion, and the bill was ordered to be engroffed.

CAPTAIN COCHRANE'S MEMORIAL.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer reminded the House of his having the preceding day given notice of his intention to move for difcharging the order that had paled during his abfence in an early part of the day, for the production of the memorial delivered in to the Board of Admiralty by the hon. Captain Cochrane, on the 17th of January, 1799. He owned that he was much furprised at fuch a motion having paffed, without any notice having been given, according to the received practice and ufage of the Houfe, on any subject which might be made the foundation of fome public proceeding. It was true, the hon. and gallant Member communicated to him more than he conceived him felf intitled to, his with to bring forward fuch a motion. I wifhed for time to inquire into the fubject, and probably it was my filence which induced him to propofe the motion fo fuddenly. Had the hon. Member stated the grounds of his motion, it must have appeared to be of fuch a nature as could not have pasfed without objection. Such a statement would fhew, that the motion would throw an imputation on the Board of Admiralty and on his Majefty's late executive government, and furely fome good reafon fhould be given, and fome parliamentary ground made out, before the Houfe would countenance infinuations against fuch characters as the King's Advocate General, his Proctor, and his Attorney General particularly; as well as against the whole of the executive government. He declared, that he had had not the leaft communication whatever with the eminent perfons to whom he alluded, on this fubject, but would move for the order to be difcharged, as being irregular, unparliamentary, and unprecedented. Before he fat down, he wished to itate one fact,

which was, that the fubject, to which alone the memorial could have applied, was no more than an irregularity, which was corrected as foon as poffible after it was difcovered.

Captain Cochrane faid, that the reafon which induced him first to memorial the Admiralty was, that on his return from America, in the year 1788, he enquired into several prizes that had been fent home, and the refult was a difcovery that no attention had been paid to them, and the proper times for taking feveral proceedings fuffered to elaple. One veffel, whofe cargo was valued at 17,000l. was condemned for the King. The condemnation was ap pealed against, and he found the King's proctor acting for the appellants, which precluded him from effectually profecuting his claim. He then, he faid, convened a meeting of naval officers, and afterwards a general meeting at the Crown and Anchor, to whom he made an address, accompanied with refolutions, which were unanimously voted. In the address it was ftated, that there were 100 fail of captured veffels defended in the Court of Admiralty by the King's proctor. There were 150 more in the fame fituation, which, by this fort of management, were loft to the proctors. Allowing them one hundred pounds for each of them, would produce the fum of 35,000l. a fmall calculation indeed, when he confidered that for the cofts of five captures of his, in the condemnation of which he was defeated, he was obliged to pay 17,000l. The real value of the 105 captures could not be less than a million and a half, or two millions fterling, and the defence of most of them was conducted by the fecret agents of the King's proctor, who was thus keeping both the profecution and defence in his own hands, and facrificing the interefts of the British navy to his private emolument; for furely the intereft of the navy must be very indifferently attended to, when enemies of the country found it their intereft to employ the King's civil officers to defend them against the claims of the officers of his navy. Finding, he faid, that the noble Lord at the head of the Admiralty would not ftand by him on that occafion, he was refolved to stand or fall by what he had done. To put the Houfe the better in poffeffion of his memorial, he would take the liberty of reading it as a part of his fpeech. It began by ftating, that the officers of his Majefty's navy were obliged to employ the King's proctors exclufively, in the profecution of their claims

The Chancellor of the Exchequer hete called him to order. VOL. IV. 1802-3. No

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