of the House, on the queftion that the Speaker do leave the chair, it would have been competent to his right honourable Friend to have moved, that before that fhould take place, fuch parts of the bill as relate to public credit should be left out, and the merits of this question might have been then difcuffed, in a manner much more fatisfactorily than by the method purfued on the prefent occafion. That ftage of the bill had paffed; and now, when the House was going into the Committee, for the purpose of bringing into full and fair difcuffion, the principle and merits of the bill, the motion was brought forward, for an inftruction to the Committee to exempt certain perfons from being taxed, under an idea that taxing them was a breach of public faith. He would not say that fuch a motion was irregular, but he thought it not very candid, and that it would be a much better mode of proceeding for the right honourable Gentleman even now to move that fuch parts of the bill as relate to the public credit be left out, than to perfift in his prefent motion.

Mr. Pitt faid, it could not be very interefting to the House to know exactly at what time the right honourable Gentleman was made acquainted with his difapprobation of the tax on the funds; but he could and would pofitively fay, that he had given him intimation of it from the moment he knew of the bill. He was surprised to find himfelf now reprobated for not having made his objections in previous stages of the bill; but the House must be fenfible that he had refrained from doing fo at the express defire of the right honourable Gentleman, who had requested that the bill might go through a Committee in order to be printed, and that all difcuffion on the fubject should be postponed till the prefent occafion. He had made the right honourable Gentleman acquainted with what he thought of the defect of that part of the bill; and he had entertained hopes that, amongst the other parts of it which had undergone alterations and amendments, this part of it might have come in for its share. In this hope he waved making any public oppofition to it, from a fincere defire to promote the bill if that defect was removed.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer folemnly affured the Houfe, that nothing could be further from his idea, than that fuch a mode of proceeding was intended to be purfued. As to the early part of the right hon. Gentleman's fpeech, he affured him he never meant to complain of a want 3 T 2

of

of communication of his fentiments on the fubject; but only that he had never confidered that it was entertained for a moment in any quarter, that an exemption was a breach of faith. Even now it would be better to leave out that part of the bill which relates to public credit, than to bring forward fuch an objection on fuch an occafion, and for fuch a purpofe. He declared folemnly, that in what he had faid as to the conduct of the right hon. Gentleman in bringing forward his motion, he did not mean to convey even a complaint, much lefs a reproach.

Sir IV. Pulteney faid, he faw this queftion in a very different point of view from the right hon. Gentleman who moved this inftruction. The principle of this bill he understood to be this, viz. that every one fhall pay a fair and equal proportion of his income; and the question ought to be, whether you will admit any exemptions at all? If you admit one fingle exemption, you go against the main principle of equality; but he denied that, by allowing any exemptions, the Houfe would be guilty of a breach of faith. He should, therefore, vote against the inftruction.

The right hon. the Treasurer of the Navy obferved, that the exprefs with of the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Pitt) was, that the House fhould take every precaution in order to prevent any infraction of the public faith. He was as

anxious to promote fuch an intention as he believed the right hon. Gentleman poffibly could be, and he had no doubt that fuch was alfo the earneft defire of thofe Gentlemen who brought forward or fupported the prefent measure. This was attacking their conduct by a fort of fide wind, which he did not think was altogether fair or proper at the prefent moment. If it was right that a tax upon property fhould be paffed to fupport the exigencies of the State at the prefent crifis, he thought there could be no great impropriety in the Bank paying the perfon who came to receive his dividend all but the tax, and handing over the amount of the tax to the proper officer. For his part, he could not fee how, or with what propriety, the impofing of a tax could-be termed a breach of faith, when the defence of the country, and the maintenance of its government, required that such a sacrifice thould be made for the general benefit of the whole. Under fuch ci.cumftances, where was the inpropriety in taxing 4. when it was admitted that B. ftanding perhaps in different circumstances, but who received the fame annual income, or poffelled the faine amount of capital, would

At

would be taxed to the fame amount? The right honourable Gentleman had declared that it was not his defire to embarrass or to thwart the intentions of his Majefty's Government. He gave the right hon. Gentleman the most ample credit to the full extent of fuch a declaration; but he would put it to the candour of the right hon. Gentleman whether, at the prefent crifis, it would not be more confiderate and more patriotic to fupprefs a fentiment like that, the meaning and intention of which was fo liable to be perverted in another place? After the obfervation which had come from fuch high and refpectable authority, he put it to the feelings and the candour of the right hon. Gentleman, whether it was right to perfift in urging the propriety of his motion, after the information he had received of its irregularity from the Chair? (No, no, no! from all fides of the Houfe.) The right hon. Gentleman refumed. It was not his with to mifreprefent the fentiments of any Gentleman, but more particularly thofe, which were delivered from fuch high authority as that of the perfon to whom he then alluded. all events he could not agree that it would be becoming in that House to be the foremoft, except the city of London, in refifting the operation of the bill at fuch a crifis as the prefent. In this too it might be obferved that, though that corporation, on all other occafions, was confidered as almost the leader of all the other corporations of the country, yet it was worthy of remark, that in this inftance, not one city, not one county, nor one borough throughout the whole country had followed their example. Some Gentlemen had obferved, that the prefent was to be confidered as a tax arifing from capital only; if that were to be the cafe, Government and the country would be deprived of the affiftance of a great part of this important measure. There was a very confiderable number of perfons who, though engaged in trade, yet were not poffeffed of any capital whatsoever, they were merely dealers on commiffion, and poffeffed no property, no article of the trade in which they dealt, and yet there were many of thofe received an income of more than 150l. a year. In fact, taking it in every point of view, he could not fee the neceflity which exifted for the Houfe adopting the terms of the inftruction then moved to be given to the Committee; and he thought that the right hon. Gentleman (hould have paufed before he uttered the expreffions to which he then alluded-he lamented that they came from fuch authority.

Mr.

Mr. Pitt offered a few words in explanation. The right hon. Gentleman had appealed to his feelings and his candour, and he had faid, that "he fhould have paused before he uttered" the expreffions he had made use of respecting that measure. He trufted that neither his candour nor his feelings would ever induce him, or indeed any other Member of that Houfe, fo far to forget the duty and the independence of a British Member of Parliament, as to refrain from expreffing in plain and unequivocal terms whatever might be his opinion of any measure which was brought before that. Houfe. Some mention had been made of oppofition to his Majesty's Minifters, and indeed fome Gentlemen appeared to him to have contracted fuch a regular habit of oppofition, that they continued the fame courfe in one Administration which they had traverfed in another. He was happy to fee, however, that there was one Gentleman, at leaft, who did not remain fo inflexible, that fome were capable of feeing the neceffity there was for their lending their affiftance to his Majefty's Minifters at this important crifis.

Mr. Giles obferved, that the claufe which had been objected to referred only to the small landholder and the ftockholder. The claufe, however, would be found to extend to others who fell within the defcription given only to them. The clause, in fact, went on a general principle to regulate the taxation of all capital not arifing from induftry. He, on the whole, thought the prefent tax much less objectionable than the late income tax, which an honourable Baronet had termed his old friend. He fhould, therefore, vote against the instruction which had been moved for the Committee.

He

Mr. Wilberforce fpoke in favour of the inftruction. contended, that the principle of it was to take care that those who derive their incomes from public funds fhould ftand on as good a footing as thofe who had incomes of other kinds. There was nothing more dangerous than admitting nice diftinations, when the public faith is concerned. He would, therefore, fupport the inftruction.

Mr. H. Lafcelles thought the cafe of fmall proprietors required the attention and confideration of the House as much, or more, than any other defcription of perfons. He paid a high compliment to the character and talents of Mr. Pitt, and faid, he fhould vote for the inftruction.

Mr. Tyrwhitt faid, all our proceedings had evinced a fpirit of unanimity to the prefent moment; and as the right hon. the Attorney General had mentioned that fome ex

emptions

emptions were to be made in the Committee, he hoped that unanimity would not be interrupted, by perfifting in the prefent motion.

Sir E. Hartop requested to know of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, if he meant to stand by thofe exemptions mentioned by the Attorney General?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer answered, that he meant to propofe to the Committee an exemption to the extent mentioned by his hon. and learned friend..

Mr. Pitt faid, that would not remove his objection; for then it would remain in the proportion of rol, a year to 6ol. on other income.

On the question being loudly called for, a division took place.

Against the inftruction, ‹
For it,

150

50.

The Houfe then went into a Committee on the bill, Mr. Alexander in the chair. The feveral claufes not objected to were gone through, and the Chairman afked leave to fit again next day. Adjourned.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

THURSDAY, JULY 14.

The bills on the table vere each forwarded a stage.

BRISTOL PORT BILL.

Mr. Serjeant Hayward was heard as counsel for the ship owners against this bill: two witneffes were examined; and it was ordered to be further heard next day.

The Clergy provifion bill, was committed.

Lord Suffolk ftated, that on the third reading of this bill he would fubmit to the Houfe a few obfervations refpecting its principle and object.

Lord Radnor moved, that the Committee on the woollen manufacturers' bill, which stood for next day, be pastponed to Monday next. Ordered. Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
THURSDAY, JULY 14.

Sir C. Pole moved the order of the day, for the fecond reading of the bill for transferring the Chatham cheft to

Greenwich.

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