thumberland, and that he saw the return made from a village in the neighbourhood; from which it appeared that 13 offered to ferve in the infantry, 25 in the cavalry, 130 as guides, 260 as waggoners, and 300 as drivers of cattle (a general laugh). He did not mean to infer from this that any want of fufficient zeal for the public fervice was to be found in the country, nor would he attribute it to any thing like fhameful cowardice, but to that which he feared was the cafe at prefent, namely, that the people were not fufficiently alive to their danger-of that every inan fhould now be fully aware, and also that in the event of the menaced invafion taking place, his perfon was at the command of his Sovereign.

Mr. Sullivan ftated that directions had been dispatched to the feveral Lord Lieutenants, &c. to make the returns prefcribed by the act referred to by the hon. Gentldman.

Mr. Sheridan afked whether any returns had yet been made, and of what nature they were?

Mr. Sullian answered that there had not been yet fufficient time to fend in the returns.

Mr. Windham heartily concurred in the wifhes expreffed by the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Sheridan), that the spirit of the country fhould be fufficiently roufed; and that the argument which the hon. Gentleman had applied to a measure of the late Administration (operating upon quite a different state of things from the prefent), but which the hon. Gentleman himself had afterwards anfwered, would not be found to apply hereafter. With regard to the idea of his right hon. Friend (Mr. Pitt), that fuch diftricts fhould be exempted from the operations of this act, as thould furnish a certain number of volunteers, he highly disapproved of it upon this ground, that it would tend to the introduction of fubstitutes, upon an occafion where the armament fhould be general. He alfo objected to his right hon. Friend's opinion, that the men called upon to ferve under this bill fhould, if occafion required, be transferred to other corps. In no inftance would he permit volunteers to be thus removed.

Lord Callereagh explained, that by a claufe in this bill the penalties of defertion would attach to any person, who, after having been regularly trained, thould decline to come forward in cafe of invafion.

Lord Hawkesbury withed it to be understood, that the voluntary offers of a certain number of men in any district, would difcharge fuch district from the obligations of this

bill only; but that it was by no means intended to interfere with, or narrow the prerogative of the crown, as feemed to be supposed, for that prerogative would always have the power of calling out all fubjects.

General Tarleton faid, that a spirit adequate to the crifis was rapidly extending itfelf throughout this country; or rather, as foon as the poffibility of invafion was credited, the fpirit of the people immediately ftood forth. In Lancashire he stated that the fupplementary militia was almost immediately filled up, and the army of referve was likely very foon to be complete. The honourable Member read a letter which he had lately received from the county alluded to, defcriptive of the zeal and fpirit which prevailed in that populous diftrict. He fpoke in preference of voluntary service over compulfory, and faid, fome of the most glorious achievements and prodigies of valour detailed in military history were performed by volunteers. He flated two inftances: one in the time of the great Prince of Condé, when his army was beaten by a body of 5000 British volunteers under General Boyd; and that Prince, in detail.ng the battle to his Court, faid, the French fought like men, but the English like devils. The other inftance was, where, at a council of war, and under the advice of the celebrated Vauban, it was determined to attack in the open day a ftrong fortrefs of the enemy, which was carried by the fignal bravery of 100 volunteers; and he was convinced of the truth of the pofition advanced by Mr. Pitt, that 75 volunteers were at any time better than a hundred men not fo raised.

he

Mr. Canning explained, and vindicated the argument of his right honourable Friend (Mr. Pitt), contending that it was not his object to give an exclufive preference to voluntary offers, but to give them a convenient chance with the other mode of levy propofed by the bill. As to the comparifons made between voluntary and compulfory fervice, he was furprised that a preference thould have been given to the latter in a Britith affembly, particularly by his honourable Friend on the other fide (Mr. Sheridan), who was, conteffed, the last man in the world from whom he could expect fuch a fentiment. Indeed, were he difpofed to lay a trap for a speech from his honourable Friend, he thould have thought no expedient more likely to fucceed, than to affert that it were better to compel the fervice of Britons in defence of their country, than to rely on their voluntary exertions. Mr. Sheridan obferved, that the right hon. Gentleman 4 H 2 feemed,

feemed, indeed, to intend his allufion to him as a trap for a fpeech; but if fo, he fhould be difappointed, for he would fimply fay, that all be meant in his former obfervations was this, that we fhould not deceive ourselves as to the effect of voluntary zeal, not doubting, however, that the zeal of the people would be amply fufficient for the protection of the country, provided they had an adequate impreffion of their danger.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer obferved, that though much advantage, no doubt, had arifen from the difcuffion, and many useful lights were thrown upon the fubject, yet he wished to remind the Committee, that no progress whatever was made in the bill. He expreffed, therefore, his fincere with that the Committee would proceed to the claufes of the bill (for the Committee was now three hours in debate without any question before it), and give them fuch amendments as appeared neceffary; after which the bill, in its amended shape, would be printed, and the ditcuffion might then take place upon the principle; and the bill, if neceffary, be recommitted for farther confideration.

General Gascoyne, in reference to what had been faid of the preferable service of volunteers, obferved, that it was the peculiar characteristic of the British armies, to be always entirely compofed of volunteers.

Mr. Pitt objected to the time allowed to conftables for making the returns of the lifts. Inftead of ten days for leaving fuch lifts, he propofed feven days, which amendment was agreed to.

Mr. Pitt alfo propofed that instead of feven days, which were allowed to the occupiers of houfes, &c. to make a return of their inmates, the words two days thould be fubftituted. This amendment fhould alfo be agreed to.

In page 6, in the lift of exemptions

Mr. Sheridan objected to the exemption of perfons who are now ferving in the militia by fubftitute. He faid he faw no reafon whatever for fuch exemptions, and the perfon fo ferving ought not to be sheltered from the ferv ce under the prefent bill, because he had skulked out of perfonal fervice on another occafion. He was the lefs entitled to exemption alfo, for having by his money taken away a man as a substitute, who would now, if not fo employed, be liable to ferve at all events on the prefent occafion.

Mr. Pitt agreed in opinion with the hon. Gentleman who spoke laft, and thought that perions ferving by fubftitute in

the

the militia, ought not to be exempt, unless they went to ferve in perfon in the militia, and returned the substitute to fill up the prefent fervice.

The Secretary at War said, the principle of the militia laws formed a contract, which was certainly in favour of these perfons being exempted, and in a measure of this kind, he thought the Houfe would do well not to prefs too far; though he allowed many perfons would thereby be exempted, he thought they ought not to cut too clofe on perfons who have already paid a fum of money for a fubftiture, which perhaps they could very ill fpare.

Mr. Windham thought this was a new fervice, and the contract alluded to in the other inftance did not extend to it.

The Attorney Gener.I was of the fame opinion with the Secretary at War, and confidered this as a contract which ought to be kept to; this was not to be confidered as the cafe of a gentleman, to whom 251. or 30l. may be nothing: but it is more likely to be a perfon who has mortgaged his Houfe or property to raise the money; and in doing so, he thought he was entitled to be exempted in all respects the fame as if he had ferved in person.

Mr. Pitt fupported his former opinion, and thought it no burden on any perfon, but only that it enabled him to instruct himself in the ufe of arms, for the purpose of defending his family, his property, and his country.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid, he felt this to be a queftion of expediency, and conceived we should not violate any principle of good faith; `for at the time they found fubftitutes, they had no more this measure in contemplation than his Majetty's Minifters had.

Mr Tierney was of the fame opinion as the Attorney General, and thought the exemption ought to stand good.

Mr. W. Smith faid, an armed multitude, without knowing the ufe of arms, was no more than a vast number of men drawn out for flaughter. Government was, therefore, doing a fervice to every one by having him inftructed in the use of arms; and he was, therefore, against the exemption.

Mr. P. Carew thought thofe who are now ferving by substitute, at leaft, ought to be put into the fourth cla's under the prefent bill.

Lord Hawkesbury faid, the militia law gave a man the power either to ferve in perfon or by fubftitute. When the queftion of the army of referve was before the Houfe, the

exception

exception was made; but the prefent measure is fo different in its nature and character, there can be no comparison.

On the question being put, the exemption was done away; and perfons now ferving by substitute are liable to the prefent measure.

On the clause being read which went to regulate the days and hours on which the first clafs are to be exercifed and trained to arms, it was mentioned from 25th March to the 25th December.

Mr. Pitt rofe, and said that this was a part of the bill to which he wished particularly to call the attention of the House. The great object of the prefent measure was to obtain, with as much celerity as poffible, a very large mass of the people, fo well inftructed in the use of arms, as that in cafe of a great emergency, and an actual invasion, they might be able to march against and fight the enemy with effect. It was of the utmost importance, therefore, that this inftruction and training should be gained in as thort a time as poffible, for there could be no doubt but the enemy, active and vigilant as he was on all occafions, would ufe every effort to carry his infolent defign of invading us, before we can take all the means in our power to repel his attacks. The season of the year best adapted for his fucceeding in fuch a design, was that in which long nights, and the ftormy weather incdent to the season, might enable him, from our cruizers being blown of their stations, to push over his forces before they could return to them again. It is, therefore, highly neceffary that we fhould be as fpeedy in advancing this meafure as poffible; and when it thall be once brought into a ftate of forwardnefs, he should believe that it would be a means of making our infolent foe, with all his mighty vaurts, pause before he ventured on fo rafh a step as that of attacking us on our fhores. If, however, that haughty foe fhould be fo daring, he (Mr. Pitt) had no doubt but his attempt would end in difcomfiture and difgrace; and that our brave countrymen would, by that discomfiture, give a glorious example to all Europe of what may be achieved by a gallant and courageous people, who are determined to live free or die. A French army beaten and difcomfited, and driven back to their own coafts with difgrace, might alfo have the great effect of roufing the Powers of Europe from that ftate of apathy and lethargy in which they have for fome time paft been funk, and might also awaken in the French people themselves fentiments of refentment and indignation, which

would