1 become just as indefinite as thofe of the last one, and no man could tell how unable we might be to refift our enemies, or how this country was to be defended; and we were even at this time confidering how this capital was to be defended against a fiege; and he would appeal to any man, if, when we were involved in fuch a fituation, fuch an unfounded and unjust claim as this ought to be liftened to! It was not long ago fince the Houfe were engaged in difcuffing a claim brought from a different quarter, he meant the claim of his Royal Highnefs the Prince of Wales. That claim was, at the time it was brought forward, thought by many to be proper and juft, and fuch a one as was connected with the public welfare; though he must confefs that he himself did not think fo.. It was, however, voluntarily given up by the Prince of Wales himfelf, and abandoned by all who fupported it, on account of the advantages which would refult to the country, when in a ftate of war, by its being quashed. He could not imagine it poffible, that Parliament, after having abandoned the claim of a Prince of this country, could entertain, for a moment, fuch a one as the prefent. He was astonished how any man could have thought of it, when the people of the country were called upon to contribute towards the prefent war, on very ftrong grounds of neceffity, which create very great uneafiness and difficulty to every individual in the realm. Once encourage fuch claims, and he did not know what would be the end of them. Was it with a view to try the extent of the generosity of which the people of England were poffeffed? For any thing he knew, we might perhaps be called on by and by to indemnify the Elector of Hanover. In fhort, he thought it was impoffible for him or any man to tell whom we might be called on to indemnify. Under circumftances like the prefent, when the good-will of the people was fo neceffary to be fecured, he might fay that fuch a conduct difplayed a want of common prudence or decency to the country. He confidered that Minifters did not feem to have done every thing with an intent to fhew to the country their economy of the public finances, which they were every day increafing, by making additional exactions upon the people. They had done away or expunged no finecures from the lift of penfioners, and until he could read the penfion lift, without exciting difpleafure or difguft, he never could imagine that any fymptoms of economy were difplayed by Government. He withed only to fee in that fit the names of those individuals who had performed performed meritorious fervices to the state, under which conditions, it is to be prefumed that all pensions were created. So far from this being the cafe, however, he faw Government overlooking meritorious fervices, while they were appealing to the generofity of the country at a time when the people were exhausted with taxes which were laid upon them, and when all that induftry and ingenuity can produce, feem not adequate to fatisfy the numerous demands of Government. When we fee fuch loans of money, and fometimes even two budgets brought forward in one year, with rules of taxes and contributions, he fhould, under fuch circumstances, conceive that he was betraying the interest of his conflituents, were he to confent to give away any money out of the pockets of the public towards fuch an indemnification. He fhould with to know what indemnity the Prince of Orange had already had, for he imagined that no claim could attach to the ships that were taken in Holland. He concluded by making this fingular obfervation; that unless he could bring himfelf to be of opinion, that bran was the beft fubftitute which the people of England could make ufe of for corn, and a workhoufe the fittest place for people to refide in (which he alledged the Minifter had once faid) he could never think of agreeing to fuch a donation The Chancellor of the Exchequer expreffed his aftonishment at hearing the hon. Baronet make fuch an allegation. Whether or not he had ever made fuch an obfervation as that imputed to him, he only need appeal to the Members of that Houfe. He expreffed his aftonishment that the claims of the Prince of Orange fhould be difallowed by any perfon whatever. Surprifed he was to find that an unfortunate family, who were the victims of the gigantic military and unjuft power of France, did not draw from the hon. Gentleman fome fentiments of pity, of generosity, or even of juftice, feeling as he mutt, and knowing as he muft know, that to that illuftrious Houfe this country was indebted for a confiderable thare of the liberties which it now enjoys. He trufted there could not be another individual in the Houle who was not inclined more juftly to reflect upon the lamentable viciffitudes of fortune. In spite of the machinations of the French we had preferved, unimpaired, all the blefings originating from King William H. greatly by means of the affittance derived from our faithful ally. He fhould have thought that the deplorable fituation of the VOL. IV. 1802-3. 4 R family family in queftion would have excited the compaffion, would have awakened the juft and genercus feelings of every perfon within this Houfe. It was, no doubt, a melancholy circumftance, that the Houfe was under the neceffity of voting the fum of 60,000l. towards the wants and neceffities of the Prince of Orange, at a time like the present, when our own exigencies were fo great; but the propriety and even the juftice of the claim he hoped would be liftened to by the Houfe. The money which we had received, and the liberties which we were in poffeffion of by means of that illuftrious family, were confiderations which, he trufted, would have their due weight. The hon. Member had ftated, that no argument had been brought forward in fupport of the claim. He thought his noble Friend faid fufficient, when in his appeal to the Houfe he ftated the arrangement which was to take place, provided this country furrendered the fhips which were taken in Holland. After thefe fhips had been fo retained, they were to operate as a claim of 220,000l, which was to be advanced by this country. The occupation of Holland by the French, however, foon prevented any indemnification being made at that time, by a fenfe of honour and other confiderations; but we fhould at least fee, that the Prince of Orange should not be a fufferer by fuch a conduct. His noble Friend made an appeal to the generofity of the people of this country, and ftated that we had ftood in the way of an arrangement, which would have opened, to the advantage of the noble perfonage whofe cafe we were confidering. Mr. IV. Smith faid, that there was certainly a very powerful, and perhaps irrefiftible appeal made in this cafe, and he fhould not be the firft to refufe any grant claimed upon the ground of the compaffion or the gratitude of this country to that illuftrious family. Upon thefe grounds he admitted their claims in the fulleft extent, but when Gentlemen fpoke of juftice, they admitted a fort of confufion, or at leaft mixture of ideas. His plain and fimple objection was of a different nature. The Parliament was now fitting later than ufual, on the 26th of July, and this meafure was deferred till a period when a very thin attendance must necefsarily be expected. The fum of 60,000l. and 16,000l. a year was not a triffe in itself, and was of ftill greater importance as a precedent. Yet, though the French should be even at our doors, he would not object, were it abfolutely a claim of generofity and juftice. But he would afk, why рабо pass a vote in the end of July, which would answer the fame purpose in November next? It did not appear that there was any regular or preffing neceffity for the grant now, and there could be no doubt of the Houfe being fully as refponfible and well able to pay the money in November, after having had fufficient time to examine into all the circumftances. Lord Hawkesbury said, he could see no objection to such a measure as this on account of a thin attendance, when there was business of fuch extreme importance before Parliament, as the defence and the property bill. The reafon why it was not brought forward before, was only because his Majefty's Minifters were hitherto fo very much occupied with other bufinefs. With regard to the poftponement, he said, he had reason to think that the vote now proposed would be more acceptable to that illuftrious family at prefent, than a much larger fum if delayed for another year. Mr. Smith replied, that he did not propofe it to be delayed for another year, but till November next, which would be no more than the space of three months. The refolution for the grant of 60,000l. was agreed to nem. con. Lord Hawkesbury then faid, that he was under a misapprehenfion when he stated, that the annuity muft require a feparate Committee; and finding that it might be paffed with equal regularity now, he would lofe no time, but move, that there be granted to his Majefty, out of the consolidated fund, the annual fum of 16,000l. as an indemnity to the illuftrious Houfe of Orange. Mr. Wm. Smith proposed to get rid of this motion, by moving, that the Chairman do leave the chair; which was immediately negatived, and the refolution carried. On the motion for the fum of 2,000,000l. to be granted as a vote of credit, Mr. Johnstone faid, the Minifter on a former day, according to a report which he then held in his hand, had given a pledge that twenty-fix millions would be fufficient for the fervice of the enfuing year. To fhew that this pledge could not be redeemed, he ftated, that in the year 1800, the expence was 32,000,000l. and in the year enfuing 38,000,000l. for Great Britain only, which, with the 5,000,000l. from Ireland, amounted to the fum of 43,000,000l. and he could not fee how it was poffible that we could go on at a cheaper rates 4 R 2 rate now, when we were to have an infinitely greater establishment. The Chancellor of the Exchequer replied, that the newspaper report alluded to, must have been grossly inaccurate, if it ftated him to say, that the expences of the year would be no more than 26.0co.oool. for though he might reafonably be fuppofed to know at the time what were the intentions of Government in regard to the augmentation of our force, he could not have anticipated what might have been the decision of Parliament. What he really stated the expences of the year he estimated at, was about 30,000,000l or 26,000,000l. exclufive of Ireland. This arofe from the estimate of 10,000,000l. from the previous produce of the consolidated fund, 10,000,000l. from the Cufioms, and 10,000,000l. more, which he proposed to raise in this country as a war tax. The refolutions were agreed to, the report ordered to be received the next day, and the Committee of Supply ordered to fit again on Wednesday. WAYS AND MEANS. The Chancellor of the Exchequer prefaced the resolutions he had to propose, by obferving, that at an early period of the year, it was proposed to raise 3,000,000l. for the payment of a like fum advanced by the Bank, of which 1,5co,cool. had been actually paid; but, in confequence of the renewal of the war, an application was made to induce them to take the remainder in Exchequer bills, which was agreed to for the public convenience. He then proceeded to make his feveral tatements to the Committee. Eftimate of the Surplus of the consolidated fund to 5th of January, 1804: Toral fum propofed to be voted to the 5th of £6,500,000 Received on Jan. 5, 1803, after completing the of Jan. 1804 grant for the fervice of 1802 309,329 Received on April 5, 1803 1,037,332 |