faid, feemed to mutter at this; nay, he groaned; he was glad to hear him groan. However, he hoped, he would go on with his ftatue of gold, and make it a coloffal ftatue; but he advised him not to folicit fubfcriptions at the Royal Exchange; it was not likely he would be very fuccefsful there, for, he believed, in one of that Gentleman's papers, he had obferved, that the ftocks could not exift if the monarchy exift. It was not very probable that the writer of such a sentiment would be very popular in that wealthy city where any fubfcribtion could be raised with effect.

Mr. William Smith faid, he approved of the bill in its orignal shape, because it conveyed the idea of the whole mafs of the people being trained. He wished the training to extend to every clafs, as the country might be placed in a fituation in which it would be neceffary all fhould be ready to act. He was aware there might be fome perfons lefs to be trufted than others, but he was perfuaded the people at large were loyal. He obferved that the volunteer force was difperfed over the whole country, and might not be easily drawn together at the point where it was wanted. He liked the original measure, because it was to make us an armed nation. There was befides an advantage in having an indefinite force, if it was afcertained the enemy might be able to bring a force adequate to meet it.

Mr. Archdale ftated, that Mr. Cobbett, in his Journal, had afferted, there were not 18,000 men in Ireland, and that France had only to fend four fhips of war, with as many troops as they could convey, in order to take poffeffion of that country. Now was this a fentiment for which a man ought to have a statue of gold? It was not an attempt to fet fire to the four corners of the world, but to the four corners of Ireland. If his Majefty's Ministers ought to be difmiffed, let Gentlemen move to that effect. If they did not poffefs the confidence of the House they would be difmiffed; but at a time like this, to go on embarraffing Minifters was useless and unavailing.

Mr. Windham faid a few words in explanation.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid, it was with reluctance he protracted the difcuffion. feeling that Gentlemen might be better employed; he fhould be forry to fix on himself the imputation of having delayed by unneceffary observations, those exertions that were neceffary for the fafety of the country. An hon. Gentleman (Mr. Smith) had ftared his opinion of the bill under a wrong impreffion. He had flated that the force

force for the defence of the country would be understood as definite. It was not fo, but remained as indefinite as by the original bill. The prefent measure was only to enable his Majefty to relieve particular diftricts when there were such a number of volunteers as fhould be deemed fufficient. By the operation of this bill, there would be a force voluntarily dif ciplined, not difciplined under the apprehenfion that they might be drafted into the ranks. He knew it was the duty of every man to ferve his Majefty any where within the country in cafe of invafion; but he wished to substitute volunteer corps, because he wished to fee men come regularly into the field. The hon. Gentleman (Mr. Windham) had gratified and furprised him, by saying, that this was a bill upon which the country might rely, if it was properly executedhe had furprised him, because when it was first propofed, he had spoken of it with coldness-he had merely faid, it was a measure that would not do harm. There was not one mode of defence which that hon. Gentleman had not spoken of with contempt, except the regular army. Fortunately his authority was not equal to his zeal, or his obfervations might do confiderable harm. Of the militia and volunteer corps, he had spoken in a manner that had excited difguft, and had produced enquiries refpecting the conduct of the militia in Ireland, the refult of which had been moft fatisfactory. He referred to Mr. Sheridan's ftatement of the public feeling, and afked whether, without fuch a popular fentiment, this bill could be carried into effect. He had never heard an imputation of delay without feeling its daring injuftice. He knew that the magiflrates of the country had heard with aftonithment that Parliament had not acted with difpatch. Magiftrates could not execute fo faft as the Houfe could legiflate. He never fhould ceafe to be of opinion that the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Windham) had, throughout the whole period that had elapfed fince the prefenting his Majefty's meffage on the 8th of March, done every thing that was calculated to dif fpirit and difmay the people, and to add to the hopes of the enemy. The hon. Gentleman himself must have read with mortification, that importance was attached to his opinions by the French journalists, and that they were fources of exultation to them, as they were of regret to ninety nine out of a hundred in this country. If the hon. Gentleman had moved an addrefs to difmifs his Majefty's Minifters, he could only have faid, that in the courfe of eleven weeks they had laid the foundation for the largest force that ever exifted. If, not withstanding

notwithstanding their efforts, and they had not been wanting, he was of opinion that they were unworthy the confidence of the King, let him claim the opinion of the Houfe; but it was not confiftent with his public duty to be continually endeavouring to weaken the confidence of the House towards thofe in whom his Majelly placed confidence. The language of the hon. Gentleman before the rupture was calcu lated to produce the rupture. He was not prepared to say it was a misfortune we were at war, confidering the disclosure that had been made of the enemy's intentions; not that he would go the length of faying war was a preferable state, No. God fend it might be foon terminated, but he hoped not one inftant before the enemy fhould not have a hope left as to the illue of the conteft in their favour. When the enemy ceased to have a hope (and they never could till they ceafed to have interefts, which though foreign to this country were inconfiftent with its fafety) then God grant the conflict might ceafe. He wished to have the benefit of the hon. Gentleman's affiftance; but let him not attempt to lower Government in the eyes of the enemy. He obferved, that no change of Government could poffibly fatisfy the hon. Gentleman than one at which he thould be at the head. It was the

opinion of that Gentleman the country could not be faved unlefs his principles were adopted; but it was to be hoped,. there were very few who thought he ought to be the guide of the counfels of the country. With refpect to the present measure, it enabled his Majefty to retain as much as he thought fufficient of the compulfory part of the bill. It was a meafure that would raife an army of 400,000, ftill leaving his Majefty the means of augmenting it.

Doctor Laurence, in a fpeech of confiderable length, fupported the arguments ufed by Mr. Windham, and cenfured Minifters for the language they had ufed towards that right. hon. Member; their conduct, he obferved, appeared as if no perfon was allowed to give his opinion without their licence. The bill then paffed through the Committee, and the report was ordered to be received the next day

The lien bill was read a third time, and paffed.

The Houfe went into a Committee on the Canada courts bill, which was ordered to be reported and read a third time the next day.

The affeffed taxes bill was re-committed.

Mr. Garland noticed the arrangement made refpecting the duties on windows, which he confidered highly improper:

VOL. IV. 1802-3.

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windows whofe dimenfions were four feet three inches broad, and eleven feet high, he propofed to have charged as double windows, and that no fingle window thould contain more than 36 fuperficial feet.

Mr. Vanfittart objected to the motion of the hon. Member, as it went to exempt fuch windows from being taxed as were under the dimenfions already stated.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer alfo difapproved of the amendment.

The refolutions were then agreed to, and the report ordered to be received the next day.

The Scotch affffed taxes bill was re-committed, and ordered to be received to next day.

Adjourned.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

FRIDAY, AUGUST 5.

The Irish excife duty bill, the receipt duty bill, and the Eaft India fhipping bill, were feverally read a third time and paffed.

In a Committee on the income tax bill,

The Duke of Norfolk rofe, and made fome obfervations on that part of the bill which provided that parithes fhould make good the money with which the collectors might abfcond, or otherwife prove deficient. He had not read the bill fo attentively, he faid, as to know how the matter exactly food, but from what he could collect from the perufal he had given it, he thought at leaft the public were entitled to have fecurity given by these men on the appointment to their offices. In page 34, his Grace objected to the exemptions in favour of foreigners poffeffing money in our funds. He faw no good end it would aufwer. The only effect it could have might be either on the fcore of good faith, or of policy, As to good faith, in his opinion, there could be no queftion. If he thought there would be the least breach of national faith, by laying a tax on the funds, he would be one of the lat men in the world to propofe or fupport it. But he could not fee it in that point of view at all. When property of all kinds belonging to perfons in this country was taxed, and particularly when the funds were taxed, confidering the diainution that might refult from frauds, the queftion of good faith ought not to enter into confideration. As to policy, he conceived the only reafon for not taxing the property of foreigners

foreigners in the funds was, that it was advifeable they fhould have a ftake in them; but from the nicest calculation he had been able to make, the whole property poffeffed by foreigners in our funds did not amount to more than a tenth of the intereft of the national debt, eftimating which at 20 millions, their ftake would only amount to two millions, which was chiefly poffeffed by Dutch and French; and a fum fo truly infignificant could not be fuppofed to have an effect in a queftion of peace or war; for as Government would think it worth while to interfere in fuch a cafe, there being at this moment, he believed, no other representative Governments in Europe except this country and Sweden, he thought that at least the money of foreigners in our funds, in cafes of purchases made after the paffing of this bill into a law, might very fairly and ought to be taxed. He, therefore, thould propofe an amendment to the following effect : "That property in the funds, belonging to foreigners, fhould be liable to a tax for purchafes made after the paffing of this act."

The Lord Chancellor having left the woolfack, faid, that he perfectly coincided in opinion with the noble Duke, that a tax of this kind would not, according to the ftrict fenfe of the word, be a breach of national faith. If, however, fuch a conftruction may be put upon it, confidering the fair character this country had always maintained with regard to its pecuniary tranfa&ions with foreign nations, though we might be confiderable lofers from the want of the tax, yet he by no means found himself inclined to accede to the amendment propofed by the noble Duke. His Lordship reprobated the doctrine which had been held as to the question of national faith, and faid, he could not confider it as fuch, even if there had been a claufe in the acts which expressly declared that the funds thould not be taxed. The funds, like all other kinds of property, muft und ubtedly yield and give way to the exigencies of the times, ahd must be governed by and fubject to that general law which is impofed on a!! Governments entrusted with the public fafety. Foreigners certainly had no other stake at prefent, than on our justice, and our ability to pay the money when it became due. to ourselves, we are bound equally to bear our burthens; we were all embarked on board the fame bark, and muft fisk or fwim together. Befides, he did not even fee that the amend ment would be of the leaft benefit. It would bear equally hard on foreigners, as it would diminish the interest, and thereby

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