The fhips paffengers regulation bill was read a third time, and paffed.

The Secretary at War brought in a bill for making far ther provifions for the pay and cloathing of the militia of Great Britain, which was read a first time; and the right hon. Gentleman, after stating that this bill was in fome particulars materially different from any former act on the fame fubject, moved that it should be printed and read a fecond time next day.

The ordnance lands bill was committed, the report was received, and the bill ordered to be read a third time the next day.

Mr. Pole gave notice of his intention of moving, next day, for leave to bring in a bill for vefting other lands in certain trustees for the use of his Majefty's ordnance.

Mr. P. Moore prefented a petition from cerrain perfons engaged in the earthenware manufactory in Staffordshire. praying the coufideration of their cafe.-Ordered to lie on the table.

SUPPLY ARMY ESTIMATES.

The House refolved into a committee of fupply, to which the papers prefented by the Secretary at War on the 3d inftant, and the ordnance estimates, were referred.

The Secretary at War faid, that in rifing to fubmit to the confideration of the Committee, the remaining army estimates, he wished to obferve, that they confifted of two parts:-One of them related to thofe eftimates that were not prefented to the House at the commencement of the feflions. They were the ufual estimates for fupernumerary officers, penfioners at the Royal Hospitals of Chelsea and Kilmainham, the Royal Military College, and the Military Afylum: these estimates could not be prefented before, because the whole of the expence could not be ascertained until the feven garrison battalions were complete. The fecond head of eftimates related to fome augmentation that had been ordered in the regular forces, to the militia and fupplementary militia, and to fome further expences which had taken place in the barrack depart

Thofe eftimates which related to the fupernumerary officers, penfioners at Chelfea and Kilmainham, &c. were much the fame as before. The expence of the Royal Military College was greater than that of laft year, it amounted to 8110l. This increase was owing to a fecond company of cadeis being formed. This inftitution being found to answer fo well all the purposes for which it was formed, it had been thought expedient to add a fecond company of cadets. Any body

Who

who confidered fairly the nature of this inftitution, would, he was fure, agree with him, that it was an expence well laid out on the part of the public. He trufted that it was an inftitution that would be conftantly kept up, as it afforded to young men deftined for the army, better means of inftruction than they could otherwife obtain in this country; he hoped alfo, that it would always be managed with economy, and without any partiality or favour. He now came to the Royal Military Afylum; for this fervice he should move for a fum of 31,000l. of this fum 21,000l. was to be applied to complete the building. He was forry to fay, that the buildings which were completed, coft more than had been. originally estimated, though every attempt had been made to make the estimates as accurate as poffible-This increase of the expence beyond the estimate, arofe partly from this circumftance, viz. that foon after the estimate was formed, the difpute with the Northern Powers took place, which caufed a great increase in the price of many of the articles used in the building-This, however, would, he hoped, be the whole expence of the building, and he fhould only afk 10,000l. for fitting up the rooms, &c. He came now to the fecond head of eftimates, viz. thofe which related to the augmentation of the forces.-The augmentation which had been ordered was not to a very confiderable extent, for the Committee would recollect, that when the army was voted in December last, it was upon an unusually high cftablishment, the highest that ever was propofed in time of peace. It was thought that completing the army by a fmall augmentation would be fufficient as the army voted was 130,000 men.The augmentation that would take place, would be principally in the cavalry. The Committee would recollect, that by the plan which he propofed in December last, ten men per troop of the cavalry were to remain difmounted; thofe men were now to be mounted, and their place to be fupplied with recruits; this would make 70 men per troop. There was alfo to be an augmentation in the foot-guards. The next augmentation arofe from a regulation which had been adopted of abolishing the field officers having companies; in confequence of which there would be three additional captains in each regiment." He would not now enter into any arguments upon the propriety of this regulation, he would only fay, that it was one that met with the approbation of the moft experienced officers of the army; by this plan, the fituation of captain-lieutenant would be abolished, and he would of courfe have one of the three companies; another of

the

the companies was to be given to a captain on half-pay ; and the fenior lieutenant was to have the third company on condition of railing thirty men, and the fenior enfign to fucceed him on railing ten men. The expence of this measure would be about 35,000l. viz. 26,000 for Great Britain, and goool. for Ireland. The greatest part of the expence of these estimates arose from the militia, it amounted to a fum of 1,267,000l. for Great Britain, and 480,4971. for Ireland. Contingencies, 13,3451. cloathing, 143,8911. The militia. of Great Britain would amount to 60,893, fupplementary militia, 24,000, making (exclufive of officers, non-commiffioned officers, &c.) the number of rank and file above 73,000 The militia of Ireland amounted to 18,000 men, making all together above 90,000 men. And he was happy to fay, that a very fhort time indeed would elapfe before they were all embodied and fit for fervice.-The additional expence for the fupplementary militia, would amount to 416,000l. the additional expence of the barrack department 15,000l. making the total expence of Great Britain, 2,540,000l. and for Ireland, 570,000l. being all together, 3,110,000l. Having thus ftated the general items, he would Hot trefpafs at prefent any longer upon the Committee, but would be perfectly ready to give any Gentleman every information in his power. He then moved his first resolution.

Mr. Windham declined to enter into any detail of the feveral items alluded to by the right hon. Gentleman, but took occafion to repeat his objections to the fyftem purfued by the prefent Minifters, and particularly with refpect to the militia. It feemed to be their object to purfue quite an oppofire courfe from that which good policy would preferibe. It feemed their refolution to fuckle the militia, and to dry-murfe the army-(a laugh.) He contended, that as the country was not fufficiently populous to supply both those defcriptions of force, that the regular army fhould have the preference. Ministers did not appear to him to have duly confidered the nature and character of the war in which the country was engaged, nor to have yet made up their minds as to the plan of operations they ought to purfue. Either they had not determined on any plan at all, or that which they adopted was exceedingly fallacious. They were evidently forced into war, and their refolution was fcarcely formed when they got into it; therefore they had not yet prepared their measures. Perhaps they looked upon it as an ordinary war, and that ordinary bustle and activity was fufficient to

meet

meet it that it was enough to collect a force without any diftinct view to its application, but probably they had nothing in view beyond mere defence that they looked for fome mediation to fave the country, and meant again to feek an opportunity of fneaking into peace. Unlefs fuch was their intention and hope, he could not conceive the purport of their proceedings. If defence alone was their defign, he could not but regret it, for that was a state in which, though we might not lofe, we could not gain any thing. Minifters had already, by the peace of Amiens, forfeited the advantages of ten years great exertion and glory, and fuffered the country to go to leeward; and by a merely defensive system, were now holding out the deplorable profpect of an indeterminable war, a war in which none of the objects which urged its commencement were in the leaft degree likely to be attained-a war for which there was no precedent in our hiftory, and in which, in fact, we fhould be only wrestling with deftruction, while the feeling and fpirit of the country must be wasting away. If defence alone even was intended, he did not think the fort of force propofed to be raised, that which found wifdom would recommend; for, if invafion fhould take place, the militia was not the most desirable force to employ-a regular army ought to be met by a regular army-it fhould be "diamond cut diamond."-The right honourable Gentleman expreffed his decided conviction that, unless some very ftrong measures were immediately taken, nothing effectual could be done. Minifters fhould adopt that vigour in the firft inftance, to which they must be, ere long, obliged to refort, or the object could not be attained, and the country might be loft. Provifions should be made to raife the people en maffe, if neceffary; for the period might fuddenly come, when, without exertion, our fate would be precarious indeed. This was the more defirable, when it was confidered that, unlefs fomething of a great and extraordinary nature was devifed, it would be utterly impoffible for us to take any ftep towards reftoring that balance of power on the Continent, which it was material for our own fafety to feck; and it alfo behoved us to think very seriously on measures of precaution even at home, when we confidered the daring enterprize, the inveterate hoftility, the undif guifed with to deftroy us which characterized the govern ment of France. It was come to this with Great Britain, that either the muft ftrengthen herfelf materially indeed, or weaken the enemy confiderably, or the cannot fubfift. It

was

was the wish of moft men during the laft war, and, in the opinion of many, it ought to have been the main object of that war, to attack the government of France, and a fimilar plan of policy ought, in his judgment, to govern Ministers in the prefent conteft; but thofe right hon. Gentlemen feemed entirely to rely on chances, and mediation, and mere defence: that courfe was more fuitable to their nature and habits; as Mother Cole faid of the Catholic Religion, it was the most comfortable perfuafion for one of her calling (a general laugh). He confcffed he did not fee any good that could refult from the hope of mediation; when he looked at the iron-bound coaft which the Continent prefented to us, not a creek or harbour to receive us, he could not hope for any effectual affiftance from thence, however fome Gentlemen might talk of such prospects in language rather calculated to unnerve the public mind than to produce any benefit. The peace of Amiens had shut out Great Britain from the Continent. The declaration by the advocates of that peace was, that this country could do nothing for the Continent, and therefore would leave it to fruggle for itself, and upon that ground the peace was concluded. How then could it be expected that the Continent would now feel any intereft in the advancement of a fcheme of policy purely confined to British objects, for fo the last paragraph of his Majefty's declaration defined it; that paragragh, which impreffed on the minds of the Continent that Great Britain had nothing in view intimately connected with their interefts, and that it would be very liable to be abandoned again when any difficulty fhould arife when any clamour thould prefs to demand it. He lamented that Ministers had not couched that declaration in fuch terms as might have a tendency to bring with us the. fympathics of the Continent; but their plan of policy was narrow and selfish, and had been fo uniformly-it was fuch policy that produced the Treaty of Amiens. He was aware that he was called an obftinate finner in continuing to condemu the treaty, and in not acknowledging that it was a fair and juft experiment; but he believed that the right hon. Gentleman on the Treafury Bench muft now admit that in that experiment he and his colleagues were very much out in their calculations.

He again urged the adoption of a liberal and dignified. plan of policy, which fhould make common cause, not only with the royalifts of La Vendee, or any other part of France, but with the patriots of Holland, Switzerland, and Italy. VOL. IV. 1802-3.

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