and wifely put a stop to that horrid practice, and to the noble Lord on the treasury bench (Caftlereagh), who knew enough of the proceedings in Ireland, and who had much to answer for his conduct in that country. But if farther authority were wanting, he would refer to one of the last acts of the laft Parliament of Ireland, and one which affixed to their character a most memorable badge of difgrace. The act to which he alluded was the indemnity bill, which extended protection to the Sheriff of Tipperary, and other magistrates -a bill which cheated men of the verdicts for damages obtained in a court of juftice; a bill which impofed upon the plaintiffs in actions the neceffity of proving that the magiftrates against whom fuch actions were brought were not actuated in the conduct charged against them by a with to put down rebellion. Such was the nature of an act which afforded ample evidence of the fyftem pursued in Ireland-a fyftem which he trufted would never be repeated.

He concluded with moving, "That an humble addrefs be prefented to his Majefty, praying he will be graciously pleased to give directions that there be laid before this Houfe fuch information as has been received refpecting the late rebellious outrages in Ireland, and the prefent ftate of that part of the united kingdom."

Lord Hawkesbury said, he did not intend to ask the attention of the Houfe for any great length of time, nor was it neceffary, for indeed the fpeech of the hon. Gentleman, as the ground for his motion, had precluded the neceffity, and had almost put it out of the power of the Houfe to enter into the question in the way he had propofed, that was to fay, connecting the motion with the fubftance of the fpeech. Now confidering the state of our affairs abroad, and the great meafures now neceffarily adopted at home; and confidering that the greater number of Members were gone to the different places which moft immediately required their prefence, to give effect to the very measures which they as Legiflators had affifted in enacting, and which the wifdom of Parliament had adopted; confidering all these matters, he could not help faying, this motion was highly inexpedient to be adopted by the Houfe; indeed he had no difficulty in faying, that any motion not propofed to be followed up by any practical measure, with a view to fome beneficial effect, must at all times be liable to great objection in that House, because it was taking up the time of the House unavailingly, and bringing upon the country fometimes very great inconveni

ences,

ences, by agitating the minds of the people upon topics which, if difcuffed at all, fhould be difcuffed fully and direâly, and not in a collateral way. This was a general objection to all motions of this nature, meaning always to confine it to fuch motions, and not to fay any thing to preclude any inquiry in the Houfe when a fair ground was laid for it, and when it was propofed to be followed up by fome practical and beneficial measure. Having made this general obfervation, and begging to add, that this motion came after all the ordinary business of the Houfe was over for the feffion, or at the clofe of the feffion, as it might be called, and for that reafon alfo he might be permitted to fay, the motion would be fufficiently objectionable to the Houfe to reject it, unless it was propofed to be followed up by fome practical measure of a beneficial tendency. Such was the cafe most remarkbly, for not only was this motion brought forward at the conclufion of the feffion,. but the Houfe did not know the courfe which the hon. Gentleman intended to purfue in the event of the Houfe adopting his motion, and that too when the attendance of Members was fuch as that the House could have but few in it; Gentlemen being now neceffarily in the country; fo that if the motion was adopted, and the hon. Gentleman purfued the fubject, it could not, for the present at least, meet with that investigation which the fubject would neceffarily demand, and which the hon. Gentleman affuredly. would wish, in order to carry into effect what he intended. As to information, he faw no pretence for afking for it at the prefent moment, and in the prefent manner. He wished not to be misunderstood; he had no idea of refifting any application for information to that Houfe, when a proper ground was laid for it, either with regard to Ireland, the conduct of the Executive Government there or here, or upon any other fubject; but then the information must be asked for on a ground that it was to be followed up by fome practical proceeding for the benefit of Ireland, or any other part of the united empire, which it could not be in the prefent ftate of the fetfion. Having faid this on general topics, as applied to the prefent cafe, he would fay but little on the particulars to which the hon. Gentleman had called the attention of the Houfe. He did not affect to have any great knowledge of the affairs of Ireland, as to what was its prefent, or might be its future condition; he might know it as any other perfon might know it, by history and by general obfervations, and by taking a great deal of intereft in that part of the VOL. IV. 1802-3.

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united empire, and from fome documents which he might have, which were open to the eye of any individual; but he protefted that as to Ireland he faw nothing in this motion which tended to be of any advantage whatever. The poffible effect of agreeing to it was that of unhinging the minds of the people at a time when it was most effential they should be undisturbed by political difquifitions. Indeed, he had no difficulty in faying, that motions upon the foundation of alledged grievances fhould never be affented to, unless those who state the grievances are provided with fome remedy for them, fuch a remedy as may at leaft feem to be expedient to be adopted. He regarded this as a general maxim, that when any perfon complained of an evil, he should produce the remedy he propofed to apply to it; fo that the Houfe may have an opportunity of deciding upon the evil and the propofed remedy together. This he had no difficulty in laying down as a general doctrine, applicable to all fpecies of complaints made for the inifmanagement of political affairs; but if circumstances ever made a motion particularly unfit, they had that effect at the prefent moment; in fupporting which affertion he need only revert to the prefent fituation of our affairs abroad and at home, and thole things which we had lately witneffed with regard to Ireland; for without entering into the queftion, whether Ireland has been more or lefs well or ill governed lately, or how it was governed, or what may have been the caufes which have produced certain effects, or what the remedies may be, he did not believe that the motion now before the Houfe would have any good effect, for he did not believe that those which were stated to be the caufe of the evils of Ireland had any connection with them, nor did he believe that fome of the remedies which had been mentioned would have the effect of remedying thefe evils. Be that as it might, the queftion now with every man in Great Britain, and indeed every part of this united empire, was this -What is best to be done at this moment, to oppose the foreign foe, and to put an end to the machinations of domeftic enemies and traitors? and the refult of deliberating en that question ought to be, and muft be, to exercife, firmly and fleadily, all the power and energy of the empire, not by looking back and afking ingenious men to fee whether they could not find fomething that might poffibly have been bester if transacted over again; he was confident fuch a courfe of proceeding could produce no good whatever, but might be the caufe of great evil. He was of opinion that the energy

of

of the United Empire fhould be called forth at this period; that the whole of its ftrength should be exerted to fupport the Conftitution of the country in Church and State, as by law established, and against the enemies of the Empire, foreign and domeftic, at the prefent crifis; and he would afk the Houfe, whether, under all the circumftances by which we were furrounded, this motion was likely, in the leaft degree, to produce that effect? on the contrary, he thought it pregnant with evil.

Mr. IV. Elliot declared that he was fo far from thinking the motion now before the Houfe an improper one, that if it had not been determined fome time to be brought forward by the hon. Gentleman who made it, he should have thought it his duty to have made it himself. As to the information now asked for, he was afton fhed that Minifters themselves had not laid it before the Houfe; he was aftonished that they had permitted fo much time to pafs without making fome further communication to the Houfe than they had made on the fubject of Ireland. It might be afked of him, if this was his opinion, why was he filent when his Majefty's meffage upon that fubject came to the Houfe? to which he would obferve, that he was not prefent when that took place; when he heard it he was much affected by it, and particularly as it related to the fate of the late Lord Kilwarden, on whofe character he pronounced an handfome panegyric. He obferved, however, that he thought that that horrid event, atrocious as it was, arofe out of fome fudden affray, and was no part of a fyftematic rebellion, for then he had not read the proclamation which was ifhed on that occafion. He obferved that Minifters had mifconducted them.elves towards the Houfe upon this fubject, and faid, that if he had been in the House at the time of the difcution of it, he should have concurred in the fentiment of his right hon. Friend (Mr. Windham), not that he fhould have oppofed the meature which the House adopted, becaufe that appeared to be neceffary, but he should have concurred in the fentiments exprcffed by his right hon. Friend, that there never was a measure of that nature before adopted by the Houfe upon fuch fcanty information; for martial law had never before been adopted by Parliament without ample information of matter on which it was founded. He nevertheless would have adopted' martial law; he had said so already, but he thould have done fo from a conviction of the neceflity of the thing, not becaufe Minifters had done their duty in laying proper information

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before the Houfe, nor upon the statement of the proclamation. He said there was a great difference between the prefent cafe and that on which Parliament had formerly adopted martial law in Ireland, for then they had the reports of two Secret Committees, ftating much matter on which the Houfe was juftified in proceeding, but in the prefent cafe, Minifters would not give to the Houfe information. They might fay they had not perfect information at that time to give, and therefore they could not give what they had not, but they poffeffed information now, and they ought to give it. He maintained, that Minifters had difplayed great ignorance on this fubject, or they had been criminal. He must prefume that Minifters had information upon this fubject, or he muit impute to them a fyftematic delufion towards that Houfe and the public. There was, in the most favourable way of viewing the matter, a culpable remiffness on the part of the Executive Government in Ireland. He believed that Government had information upon the fubject of the confpiracy. Now, if their information was ever fo defective, he thought they had been remifs, for in a country like Ireland, there would have been no harm in a little precaution; but he understood, that a week before the rebellion broke out, fome men had been wounded, and there was a difcovery of fome gunpowder; and on the Friday, the day before the confpiracy happened to be detected, Government had received information, ftating that the difaffected party had betrayed fymptoms of great agitation-That they had left their work in parties; which was a fignal of infurrection; and above all, that men were coming from various parts of the country to Dublin: now this ought to have put the Executive Government on their guard He did not fay that no preparation was made again't this infurrection, but he faid it was an inadequate preparation: Ministers were furprised by what had taken place, but he was not. He had received a letter from a perfon not likely to form any opinion adverfe to Government without good evidence, ftating, that the troops in the barracks did not come for a confiderable time after the affault was commenced; and it was quelled by the volunteer corps called "the Liberty Rangers." The garrifon was not prepared, the troops of the line were not informed in time. He spoke from information which fatisfied him of the culpable negligence of the Executive Government, for which reafon he fhould be glad to fee their dispatches, to know how the facts flood. He would