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been fo much lamented, arofe from objects different from thofe which the hon. Gentleman recommended remedies for; most of the topics touched upon by the hon. Gentle man were of delicate difcuflion, on which, fromthe nature of things, it was unreafonable to expect uniformity of opinion; and, therefore, the laft day of a Seffion of Parliament was but ill adapted to their difcuffion, and that the more efpecially, when the hon. Gentleman did not ftate, that, in his own mind, the propofition which thould follow the difcuffion was made up; but even if he had, what practical means were there, at this inftant, of carrying that propofition into effect. The hon. Gentleman felt himfelf justified in bringing this fubject forward before the very few Gentlemen who had the opportunity of hearing the difcuffion of it, or of liftening to his ftatement. He had no doubt but the hon. Gentleman had fatisfied his mind that he was performing a public duty by taking this courfe, but the noble Lord faid he thought it was calculated rather to distract the country to talk of grievances without proving what they fpecifically are, where they are to be found, or what the remedies of them are; and that at a time when the vigour, the energy, the wealth, the honour of the empire are and ought to be embarked in the great conteft in which we are engaged. Whatever questions may arife on the minute points which might be calculated to diffuse in time ftill greater wealth and happiness in Ireland, many of them difputable in theory, and on which a great di verfity of opinion prevailed, and on which a difquifition would be long and tedious, because it must be minute, and, therefore, it should be fuffered to fleep until one great previous queftion, namely, whether the British empire fhall retain its wealth, its honour, and its happiness, or the whole fhall be laid at the foot of a mercilefs foe? That was the question now for us to confider and to act upon, inftead of dwelling on general points. of fuppofed defects in our Government, which was well calculated to oppofe us to the enemy, and to preferve our glory.

Mr. Elliot explained.

Mr. Windham faid, if the noble Lord who had first spoken (Lord Hawkesbury) had objected to the propofed motion; that that was probably the last day of the feffion; that there was a thin attendance, and no time to deliberate upon the fubject; fo far as the objections applied, they were of confiderable weight; but thofe objections applied much more to the speech of the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hutchinfon) than to the motion. That

That fpeech contained a variety of general topics refpecting which he must give a general opinion. The ftate of Ireland, improved as it had been of late years, wanted a great deal more to bring it to perfection. To ufe medical terms, that country was afflicted with a chronic complaint, attended with violent paroxyfms; the former required the flow operation of a remedy, whit the latter, when they occurred, required an immediate application: and out of the embarraffment which thefe circumftances occafioned, arofe the difficulty of treating that country in a proper way. He thought, at the fame time, that fpeeches like thofe of the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hutchinfon) tended to operate good, imafmuch as they fhewed a difpofition in the Legiflature to attend to thofe objects more immediately connected with the welfare of Ireland. The objections of the other noble Lord (Lord Caftlereagh) more immediately applied to the queftion. That noble Lord had urged the general danger which would refult from the information called for being laid before Parliament: the degree of danger to refult depended upon Government, as they might make fuch communication as they thought proper. No other information was afked for than fhould be confidered compatible with the public intereft and fafety. With reference to this fubject, as much had been faid lately of parliamentary grounds, he would ask how much they knew of the affairs of Ireland upon parliamentary grounds? The knew, it was true, that the King's proclamation ftated the exiftence of a rebellious infurre&tion, but what other information upon the fubject was before Parliament when they fufpended the habeas corpus act in Ireland, and enacted the martial law bill? If that infurrection was merely a fudden thing, why fuch ftrong measures? if it was permahent, why not information? Upon the difcuffion of the meffage relative to that fubject, he was charged with calling out for delay, but what he propofed was either to defer the confideration of it till the next day, according to the established ufage of Parliament, or to return an addrefs, containing a general declaration of the fentiments of that House, and then to bring in the bill after a fhort interval. The noble Lord had alluded to a meffage brought down to the Irish Parliament, May 22, 1798, but there was then this material difference, that it was flated that the infurrection then expected might break out that very night, and the whole of this transaction took place in the very city where the infurrection was expected to break out, and confequently where all were more competent to 5Q2

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judge of the fubject than we poffibly could be in this country. Upon the meffage relative to fending the militia to Ireland fome delay took place, in compliance with the ufages of the Houfe; and with refpect to that fubject, he recollect that an hon. Gentleman, (Mr. Sheridan) not only oppofed delav, but opposed the measure when it was brought forward. He had ftated that the Irish Government were furprifed, and that the Can I was within an ace of being taken poffefsion of; and the letter fent from Ireland to the Government here actually left it in doubt what the iffie of the contest would be. It had been triumphantly afked, upon what ground he ftated this? and it had been denied that the Government of Ireland were surprised, and faid the capital was not in danger: if they could not agree upon this fubject, the best way would be to bring in a special verdict, and flate facts. Were there not powder mills, and other preparations? Were there not printed papers ready for diftribution, and the country people coming in by preconcerted agreement? If all the circumstances were taken together, did they not prove the existence of a conspiracy of great depth and breadth? The mere affaffination of Lord Kilwarden might have been the fudden act of a few traitors; but combining all the circumstances together, no man could say that the Government were not furprifed, or that the capital was not in danger. It had been faid that the guards were doubled, as a measure of precaution; but he was well informed on this fubject, that that was not a measure of extraordinary precaution, but that it had been done, and was conftantly done upon much more trifling occafions: befides, to fay that a mealure was equal to what was adopted upon fuch and such an occafion was nothing, the queftion was, was it enough? If the infurrection had broken out at midnight, inftead of breaking out, as it fortunately did, three hours before, would any one fay that the capital might not have been one continued fcene of horror and mafficre? Every one knew that the infurrection and the Castle were on one fide, and the barracks on the other If had not been for the delay occafioned by the death of Lord Kilwarden, the next step would have been to the Caffle, where he understood there was nothing like a fufficient guard. In one fenfe, the Irish Government were not furpried, as they were continually receiving information upon the fubje&t; but, as in this country, where the warning voice of the approaching danger was treated with difregard, and those who talked of that danger held out as alarmilts, fo in Ireland all information upon the subject of the intended infurrection was treated with difregard; and

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even a General, who gave fome information, was treated in fuch a manner as to induce him to demand a court-martial upon his conduct, which however, was not granted. The Government of Ireland would not believe there was any danger whilst the mine was digging under their feet; they fat in the molt ferene tranquillity whith the explofion was preparing, the confequences of which it was very fortunate were no worse. It had been faid that he wished to make people feel their danger through the medium of their fears: he knew of no other way; they must take it as they chofe, it might have a different effect upon a different people; but he believed the people of this country would fight mott manfully against the danger which threatened them. The fyftem, however, of hon Gentlemen on the other fide of the Houfe, was quite the reverfe; they faid, do not tell them of their danger, for they will be frightened out of their wits, and at last they were obliged to confefs the danger. Upon this fubject they were much obliged to himself and thofe with whom he acted, for ftating broadly and openly the danger to which we were exposed; it was like throwing schoolbovs into the water to make them fwim. Minifters had decried him and his friends as a set of alarmifts, and had then delayed the meafures neceffary for the defence of the country to fo late a period, that it was to be feared they would come too late. The object of the motion was only to obtain information as to the fate of Ireland. On the fame principle that a council of war was wifhed for, fo he thought a Committee of that Houfe might fit very usefully in the interval between the prorogation and their next meeting, for the purpofe of confidering what had been, and what was the ftate of Ireland. He was fure that fuch a Committee, from the materials which might be afforded them, might make a report against the next meeting of Parliament, well worthy their attention. He therefore gave his fupport to the motion.

Sir Robert Williams faid he was now well convinced, that when the guards in Dublin were doubled, and the garrifon under arins, that the Government were not furprised. He had been feven years in Ireland and had never during that time feen the guards doubled.

Colonel Cole faid, that every Irish Gentleman in the House mut feel that the Irish Government had been very remifs. He was fure that no man wifhed more than himself to fupport Government at the prefent crilis, but the Government of Ireland ought to have paid more attention to the information they received from the Gentlemen of that country. As

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to the precaution of doubling the guards, it was, wholly infufficient; and he knew it to be a fact, that when the yeomanry came to receive their arms there was no ammunition to give them he thought that a Government who sported with the lives of the loyal inhabitants of the country, deserved the cenfure of that House.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid, he should almost have fuppofed that the right hon. Gentleman felt a little fore at the obfervations which had been made upon his conduct with respect to the message relative to Ireland. He might indeed fuppofe that the right hon. Gentleman was a little fore upon that fubject, as fcarcely a day paffed that the right hon. Gentleman did not make an attack upon Government, and at the fame time explain fome former attack. The right hon. Gentleman was however aware that no practical purpose could enfue from agreeing to the prefent motion, and had then recommended a ftanding Committee during a prorogation, a fpecies of Committee which it was well known could not fit without an act of Parliament, and for which there was no precedent whatever. Before the bills were brought forward relative to Ireland, a statement was made out from his Majefly, which was a complete juftification for the voting of thofe measures; a proclamation was laid on the table, stating the existence of a rebellious confpiracy against his Majefty's Government; and he asked the Houfe whether there was not a fufficient proof of the exiftence of a traitorous confpiracy? The Houfe were then called upon to adopt meafures for the fafety of the loyal inhabitants of Ireland; the right hon. Gentleman who complained of being charged with attempting to create delay, then wifhed not only to poftpone the meafure, but to delay twenty-four hours even before they addreifed his Majefty in anfwer to the meffage. The fcruples urged then by the right hon. Gentleman were extremely illtimed, and likely to be productive of the worst confequences; difpatch at that period might be the fafety of the country, and delay might be its deftruction. He would ask whether the decfiion of Parliament on that occafion did not give confidence to the people of Ireland, and more particularly to the inhabitants of Dublin. With refpect to the meffage which had been alluded to, which was delivered to the Irish Parliament on the 24th of May, 1798, they did not take twenty-four hours to confider of it, but voted that it fhould be forthwith taken into confideration. The right hon. Gentleman had faid, that the Government of Ireland and of this country

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