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The Lord Chancellor left the woolfack, and faid he believed their Lordships were no ftrangers to the neceffity of amending the Act of Henry VIII. which went to enforce regulations upon each of the two diftin&t heads, to which different parts of the bill which he held in his hand referred. Certainly fome provifions or other were abfolutely required, as the enactments of the A&t of Henry VIII. were in both poin's ill adapted to the prefent times; and in regard to the penalties to enforce refidence, perfectly inadequate, and confequently unjuft. Having faid thus much, he thould not think it neceffary at that moment to go into any detail, as he could not conceive but that every one of their Lordships would think with him, that a bill having fuch important interefts as the eafe, accommodation, and comfort of the clergy for its objects, interefts involving the prefervation, difcipline, and fecurity of the church establishment, was a bill fit at least to go to a Committee, in order to fee if fuch parts of it as might poffibly be liable to objection, could be fo amended as to render the whole of the bill fit to becoine a part of the law of the land.

The Earl of Suffolk expreffed great anxiety on the fubject, being earnestly delirous that the income of the clergy fhould be fuch as would enable them to live decently and comfortably. He had on a former day moved, that an account of the amount of the incomes refulting from all the rectories and vicarages in the kingdom, under 100l. fhould be laid before the Houfe; but it was faid it could not be got at. He was furprised at this. as it muft have been done in Queen Anne's time, when the first-fruits were granted. His Lordfhip faid, he underflood that the livings of one half of the inferior clergy, at leaft, did not produce 701. a year, and many nothing like it. He had one particular proof of the poverty of fome of the clergy, who held livings which he would ftate. Many years fince he visited the Lakes, and at a particular place, he was told, there was a flate mine well worth his feeing. He asked if he could have any accommodation there? He was told he might at the clergyman's. He replied, he could not obtrude himfelf on a gentleman, to whom he was a stranger. "Oh," faid the perfon, with whom he converfed, "you need not mind that, the clergyman keeps a public houfe!" He then afked what his living produced, and the answer was "141. a year, but he makes out a maintenance by playing upon the fiddle, and can play a VOL. IV. 1802-3. country

country-dance, a jig, and a hornpipe admirably." Upon his hearing this, his Lordship faid, he gave up going, as he did not wish to fee a clergyman in fo indecorous and unbecoming a fituation. There were, he next obferved, many prebendaries, the income of which had rifen to two, three, or four hundred a year; they he thought ought to give a fuft fruit and a tenth, in addition to Queen Anne's bounty, which had done a great deal of good, but only averaging about 15,000l. a year, was not equal to what was neceffary to fupport the inferior clergy as they ought to be fupported. He defired their Lordships to call to mind that the clergy of France having joined the tiers elats, was one great, leading caufe of the revolution. They ought, to be enabled to hold their station as an independent and refpectable body. He added, that if the wealth of the church was more equally divided among the clergy, it would be much for the better.

Lord Auckland rofe, not, he faid, to detain their Lordfhips at any length, (indeed, if he were defirous of doing so, he was not then able, from obvious indisposition) but to give notice that, thinking the bill of the first importance, and not being able to fatisfy himself with it as it now ftoad, though he did not think; his objections fuch as were wholly unfur mountable, (and he should be extremely glad to have them removed) when it, fhould be in the Committee, he should take the liberty of propofing an amendment, or, perhaps, a claufe, for the purpose of limiting the duration of the bill. When he did fo, he fhould previously state the reasons which induced him to think fuch an amendment neceffary.

The Bishop of St. Afaph faid, when he confidered the high character, the great abilities, and the cordial esteem and regard for the interefts of the church establishment. which belonged to the right hon. and learned Gentleman, who had with great labour and attention framed the prefent bill, he could not but with great diffidence prefume to differ from him in any respect or on any occafion. He admitted the principle of the prefent bill to be a fit and expedient one, and a principle neceffary to be adopted at prefent, but he was not. fatisfied with the fabric of the bill, meaning thereby the fhape and form of all its claufes. His Lordship was proceeding to a difcuffion of fuch claufes to which he most forcibly objected, when he was called to order by

The Earl of Roslyn, who apologized for interrupting his ight rev. Friend, but faid, he found it abfolutely neceffary, the question had not yet been put, "that the bill be read

a fecond

a fecond time;" and what had fallen from the right reve Prelate was only for to be urged in the next stage of the bill, viz. when they came to the question " that the bill be committed" His Lordship faid, if the forms of the House were not ftrialy adhered to, their Lordships would find themselves. running into utter confufion.

The Bishop of St. Afaph faid, he faw he had mistaken the ftage of the bill, he thought it had been read a second time.

The Duke of Richmond faid, he objected to the principle of the bill, and therefore he trusted that he was in order. His objection to the principle, his Grace faid, was, that it went to take away from the juries the right of trying the caufes brought against fuch of the clergy as were fued for non-refidence, and to lodge that power in the hands of the Bishops, for whom he begged to be understood to entertain à f very high refpe&t; but he could not but confider that the laity, whether affluent, or only moderately able to keep houfe, paid the clergy of every description for the religious duties they performed, and therefore he could not but be of opinion that the jurifdiction to enforce the refidence of their rector or vicar fhould remain in their hands, and ought not to be transferred to the right rev. Prelates. In order to fhew that the fame principle pervaded many of the clauses of the bill, his Grace proceeded to touch upon a few of them in which it was perceptible, and to argue upon what appeared to him to be an unjuft, a partial, and an operation likely to refult from them; when he was called to order, on the ground that what he was adverting to was fitter for the Committee.

The Earl of Rofslyn rose again, and faid, the noble Duke was certainly in order. He had begun with declaring, that he objected to the principle, and was only adverting to fuch claufes as from their enactments ferved, in his view of the bill, to fupport that objection.

The Duke of Richmond refumed his arguments, and fpoke generally to fpiritual perfons not being allowed to hold or let lands and eftates of their own for cultivation, without licence of the Bishop-to the limitations upon fpiritual perfons, with refpect to the means of occupation and cultivation of their glebe-to the poffibility of partiality in granting the licen ces; one Bithop might do it with facility to his clergy, while another might, from caprice, or fome other motive, refuse it, which might fet him and the clergy of his diocefe at variO 2

ance,

ance, and produce ill blood among them, which must neceffarily bring them into difrepute, and prejudice the character and interests of the clergy and the church; but above all, the Duke thought that the power of granting licences would be extremely inconvenient, and not to be defired by the Bithops themselves; it would lodge an invidious power in their hands, which they would find themselves eafier without. His Grace alfo pointed out the difficulty of apportioning the penalties to the means of those who were to pay them How were they to get at the amount of the produce of a rectory or a vicarage? The entries of their amount in the King's books were all of them notoriously far fhort of the real produce. His Grace made feveral other general and curfory observations on the bill.

The Lord Chancellor left the woolfack, and difcuffed the bill in a fummary way at fome length. He faid, if he himf.lf understood the bill, he was perfuaded the noble Duke did not understand it; at least the noble Duke understood it very differently from the light in which he viewed it. His Lordship read a claufe from the act of Henry VIII. to fhew the violent injuftice that might be practifed under it; and he remarked, that in trying a caufe upon a penal statute, no difcretion was vefted either in a judge or jury. The judge muft be bound by the exprefs letter of the law, and muft in his direction lay down the rule of law for them to go by, without referring to, or obferving upon, the hardship of the cafe, be it ever fo great. He mentioned two caufes which had been tried by himfelf in one week, that of the exemplary clergyman of Bow-church, for non-refidence, although the parfonage houfe was the little pocket-book fhop, the corner of the church-yard, a reficence not fit to put a clergymaninto, and therefore he was obliged to refide in Ely-place: and the other caufe that of a clergyman, who held two or more livings in the city, but had lived for nine years, sporting and taking his pleafure in Somerfetthire. Both were obliged to be fined the penalty of 110l. though their cafes were fo diffimilar. He alfo mentioned a caufe of non-relidence, tried before a noble and learned Lord now dead, who had been provoked to declare in court, that it was the most impudent cause he had ever tried. The caufe was this:A cunning attorney in a country town lived in a house rather too fmall for his family, and obferving that the parfonage houfe was much larger, and the incumbent a fingle man, propofed an exchange upon his paying rent. When he de

manded

manded his rent, the attorney said, "Don't trouble me about rent, or I fhall profecute you for non-refidence; and then there will be a confiderable balance in my favour." He did profecute the minifter, and obtained the penalty. His Lordship added a great variety of additional obfervations.

The Duke of Richmond replied at fome length, and was called to order as fpeaking twice, which was contrary to order. The Duke, however, was heard to an end.

The Bishop of Norwich began a very perfpicuous, correct, and well-arranged fpeech, with obferving, that the noble Duke had proved his fuperior knowledge how to avail himfelf of the forms of the Houfe, fince he had contrived to be heard in detail on the claufes, although the right rev. Prelate had not been permitted the fame liberty. With refpect to the neceffity of fome fuch bill as the prefent, it flood acknowledged in the conduct of Parliament, who had for fome time fucceffively fufpended the act of Henry VIII. thereby acknowledging that an act ought no longer to exist, which was better calculated to promote perfecution and enrich common informers, than to improve the fyitem of ecclefiaftical difcipline. To one of three things the Houfe was now urged, by the preffure of exifting circumstances, at this advanced period of the feffions, either to enact the prefent bill, with fuch amendments as thould be thought neceffary, which was calculated to obviate the obnoxious mifchiefs of the act of Henry VIII. or again to fufpend that obnoxious act, or by fuffering it to revive, to renovate all thofe mifchiefs, which four times already Parliament by its own acts had declared unfit any longer to exift; and, by this renovation, to give new energies to the perfecuting fpirit of those men who, after a five years fufpenfion of their lucrative perfecutions, would return to their trade with accumulated rancour. As to the prefent bill, he approved its principle, but he did not think the bill altogether faultlefs. His Lordship ftated the law as it flood, with regard to the refidence of the clergy, under the act of Henry VIII. and went through its regulations and reftriétions, fhewing their operation in all refpects, and thence evincing the hardships it imposed on the clergy, and the great inequality of its penalties. Having gone through this bill, he addreffed his argument to the bill he held in his hand, and went through a fummary statement of the objects of each claufe. The first part of the bill, he obferved, referred folely to what was termed the farming facilities given to the clergy, and

the

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