of the Commiffioners in the bufinefs of 1793, alluded to by his right honourable Friend, and from his own knowledge, he could fairly fay, that it had completely anfwered its propofed object.

Mr. I. H. Browne faid, he was happy that commercial gentlemen were fo fatisfied with the modifications which were to be proposed; but he could not help obferving, at the fame time, that it appeared to him to be making a great conceflion in favour of that clafs of men. He fhould be glad to accommodate commercial men as much as poflible, but he was bound alfo to take care of the interefts of others, and he was afraid that, by thefe conceflions, the general operation of the measure would be weakened.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer wished to fave the time of the Committee by again stating his former obfervations, that no fchedule thould be required, unlefs a great majority of the Commiffioners agreed that it ought to be produced. They would take care that the ground upon which it was called for, thould be grave and weighty enough to induce their affent.

Mr. Jones wished to know whether, if the Commiffioners divulged the fecret and violated their oath, they should be indictable for perjury?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer observed, that this was not the moment for answering that question. He was ready, however, fo far to fatisfy the hon. Gentleman as to tell him that the oath in queftion was a promiffory oath, and that as fuch, in the nature of our laws, it did not make those who violated it indictable for perjury.

Mr. Jones contended that it fhould be viewed in the light of a contentious oath.

Sir Francis Baring objected to the powers entruffed to the office of Surveyor; they, were entirely new, and if added to the powers granted last year, would prove inordinate. He wifhed to fee them defined by a particular claufe; it was alfo his defire that the statements given in by commercial houfes fhould be given in in the name of the general concern, and not individually by each partner, and that the private property of each partner thould be diftinguished from the profits of the trade.

The Chairman, Mr. Smith, here fuggefted the propriety of confining themselves to the claufe now before the Committee, which he again read.

Mr. Tierney faid, he did not difapprove of the new modifi

cations:

cations he merely rofe to afk the right hon. Gentleman if he meant to move that the Bill fhould be printed with the amendments, report progrefs, and afk leave to fit again. This would afford an opportunity of confidering the claufes refpecting the mode of affeffing the mercantile and other interefts, and Gentlemen would fee whether they could agreeto them. He was fpeaking for the accommodation of the House; but one point he must not overlook. On a former evening a worthy Alderman (Lufhington) faid, that no defcription of men could be more ready to affift Government, even to the laft fhilling, than the commercial intereft, but now this intereft was to be diftinguished by peculiar immunities, was to become its own affeffor, by having Commiffioners felected from its own body, while the gentlemen of landed estate were to be dragged through the dirt, and their property fubjected to the infpection of Commiffioners, in a great measure aliens to their body. It could not be said that the patriotism of the city was long lived, it had lafted only twenty-four hours, For (contradicting his hon. colleague) a worthy Alderman (Curtis) near him, affured the Committee that he approved of the new scheme, yet the merchants of the city of London were to facrifice their lives and fortunes to profecute a war to which they were then only to contribute what they pleafe.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer obferved, that there was a degree of candour in the first part of the hon. Gentleman's fpeech, which the latter part did not betray. It certainly was his intention to propofe that the additional claufes fhould be printed, and he had no doubt but that they would be found calculated to remedy the inconvenience of difcovery to commercial men, an inconvenience which did not apply to gentlemen of landed property, and that by granting them this convenience, the measure itself, fo far from being weakened, would be improved, and the collection increafed. The hon. Gentleman had expreffed a with to have these claufes printed, from a diffidence in his own abilities, a diffidence for which there certainly was no foundation. It fo happened, however, that this diffidence was of not near fo long a duration as he had fuppofed the liberality of the city to exift, for in less than five minutes after the hon. Gentleman had expreffed this diffidence in his own abilities, he, either relapsing into, or deviating from his natural temper, felt himself warranted in deciding upon thofe very claufes which he before was apprehenfive he did not understand. The hon. Gentle

man

man feemed to think that the worthy Alderman feemed to act in confequence of a kind of rotation. Now, among the various articles of luxury in which the hon. Gentleman was inferior to Aldermen, he certainly did not enjoy the luxury of this fpecies of rotation, for he was obliged to contend alone. He was obliged to do all the duty by himself, and to shift his attacks as occafion required. The hon. Gentleman seemed to think that the claufes which he had announced to the committee were fuggefted in confequence of fomething that had happened this morning; now the fact was, that had he not been deprived of an opportunity the preceding day by there. being no Houfe, he would have then brought forward the regulations he now propofed; but from information he had received that morning, and from the delay that was afforded. him, he was happy to fay that he could now bring them forward in a more regular and better digefted ftate, which perhaps he could not have done with equal effect the preceding day. He could not fee that the prefent was a moment for reporting progrefs; on the contrary, he thought the best way was now to go into the claufes. The new claufes might then be as open for difcuffion, as thofe now printed. It was indeed his intention that the bill fhould be reprinted, but it was alfo his with that no time fhould be loft, but that the difcuffion might take place on the report.

Mr. Tierney, in explanation, faid, that it were as well that the right hon. Gentleman had not mentioned the circumstance of there being no Houfe the preceding day. Thofe who were in fuch a hurry to pafs the bill before the Chriftmas holidays, fhould doubtlefs have been in their places at four o'clock, while thofe who oppofed that hurry might be permitted to come down a few minutes after; only thirty-fix Gentlemen however thought proper to attend on a bufinefs of fuch weighty importance, and which they pretended should be carried into effect without delay.

Mr. Alderman Lufhington begged leave to fay a word in fupport of his confiftency, which he trufted was as evident as that of the hon. Gentleman, (Mr. Tierney.) All he had faid was, that he and his conftituents approved the principle of the bill, but that he had ftrong objections to particular parts of it, which he trufted would be done away, as he felt particular fatisfaction at the explanation given by the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in all this he hoped he was perfectly confiftent.

Mr. Wilberforce was of opinion that the fevere animadverVOL. I. 1798.

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fions

fions of the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Tierney), on those whom he thought fhould not have failed in making a Houfe, could be intended only to injure the character of Parliament. If the hon. Gentleman had fat half so long in Parliament as he had, he would have known that the very circumflance of the importance of the measure might be the reafon of there not being a full attendance at four o'clock. For Gentlemen expecting an important difcufion, might wait for that refreshment which was abfolutely neceffary in case of a long de bate.

Mr. Wigley called to order, and faid, that thefe obfervations were foreign to the bufinefs before the committee.

Lord Hawkesbury alfo called to order, and wished to know what was the queftion before the Houfe?

The Chairman faid, there was no queftion before the com❤ mittee, but he was now going to read the clauses.

Sir W. Pulteney contended that the regulations now propofed in favour of commercial men put the bill altogether in a new light; it was not, therefore, wrong to enter upon the difcuffion of it, when its whole fyftem and tenor seemed to be changed.

Mr. Wigley contended, that this claufe ought to be postponed; on which a converfation arofe on the point of order, when it was decided, that it was neceffary, in the first place, to difpofe regularly of the claufes of the bill.

Upon the claufe for regulating the functions of Surveyor, Mr. Tierney fuggefted, that the commiffioners fhould have the power of difcharging him. in cafes where he was officious and oppreflive in his furcharges. It had happened last year, in the county of Lincoln, that a Surveyor had occafioned much vexation and trouble by furcharges, which were afterwards all difcharged by the Commiffioners.

Lord Hawkesbury faid, that the very cafe alluded to, proved, that it fuch an abufe exifted, there already was a difpofition to correct it. The Surveyor in the county of Lincoln was refused. He alfo oppofed the clause, because it had a tendency to hold up the Surveyors to the public as odious characters.

The Solicitor General agreed that the Surveyor in question had been very troublefome and impertinent; but it was true alfo that many perfons had been found out by his means, not to have paid their due proportion of taxes.

Mr. Plumer asked whether it wa intended that the Commiffioners under this A&t fhould re eive any falary.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer eplied, that undoubtedly

the

the trouble to which this act would put the Commiffioners, deserved remuneration; at the fame time, it was not his in tention to propofe any allowance of falary, and he doubted not but that,, independent of every pecuniary emolument, they would do their beft endeavours for the good of the country.

Mr. Pamer thanked the righthonourable Gentleman for his fair and explicit anfwer, with which he declared himself perfectly fatisfied.

The claufe was negatived.

An amendment was likewife made to the claufe refpecting the powers of the Surveyor, by which the Commiflioners are left to judge, whether they are to proceed to iffue any precept upon the furcharge made by the Surveyor; and to confider and to examine the reafons he had for making it, and decide accordingly.

Upon this point fome converfation took place between Sir William Pulteney, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The former faid, that the amendment now propofed, had made a very material alteration in the bill; which, in its original ftate, conferred a very dangerous and oppreffive power on the furveyor to harrass any perfon he chofe, by calling upon him by a furcharge, to give a statement of his affairs.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid, that if fuch an alteration (certainly material, but perfectly confiftent with the fpirit of the measure) had reconciled the hon. Baronet to the bill, how could he justify the inflammatory language he had ufed refpecting it, when he faid it applied whips and scourges to the people of this country.

Sir William Pulteney faid, he wanted none of the right hon. Gentleman's affiftance to defend his confiftency. He was not prepared to retract a word of what he had faid of the bill in the shape it was firft brought forward.

Mr. Wigley oppofed that part of the bill which empowered the commiffioners to call for a schedule with a detailed ftatement of a man's circumstances.

Mr. Tierney likewife oppofed this claufe. He faid, that before fuch violent means were used, the right hon. Gentle man might try what mildness would do. Even last year's experiment might induce him to do this; for although there might have been evasion, yet a great part of the fum eftimated had been obtained. It would be better to try to raise even a part of this fum without calling for fuch difclofure.

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