trustworthy persons: they were thereby
represented as persons who allowed a
point of honour to stand between them
and their Maker, in the most important
consideration that could occupy the mind
of man. Besides, would not the same
point of honour operate hereafter, as well
as now? When they were admitted to
power,
would there not still be some men-
tal reservation? He however believed
that the supposition, as to the point of
honour, was an unfounded and unworthy

one.

people of England there was a greater mass of understanding, good sense, and knowledge of the value of the blessings which they enjoyed, than was to be found amongst any other people on the earth. He would stand up for the people of England, and say, that the middling classes, which formed the sinews of the country, constituted a mass of well-instructed and well-informed people.

This allusion to the people brought him to another point on which he wished, professionally to say a few words: he meant Only that he disliked to trespass on the conduct of the clergy. He would their lordships' time, he had intended to maintain, that there was that in this have gone further back into history, in question, which rendered it not only not order to show how utterly incompatible unbecoming in a clergyman to interest Popery was with Protestant liberty. He himself in it, but even his bounden duty was aware that now-a-days great objec- so to do. He had never acceded to the tions were made to any reference to past opinion, that religion had nothing to do time. A noble and learned lord had wit- with the question. He believed it to be tily designated history as an old almanack. intimately combined with it. Religion To refer back so far as a hundred years could not be separated from the considerawas now considered quite absurd. Times tion of the question in any way. It was were changed-all experience was thrown a question in which the interests of the aside, and new theories were set up. Protestant religion and the pure Christian With respect to almanacks, they were faith, as professed in this country, were very convenient and useful for the pur- deeply involved;- nay, they were the pose of reference; and though he was very foundation of it. In some individual no almanack-maker himself, he believed instances, the zeal of the clergy might that no man could make a new one who have overstepped its proper bounds; and had not seen an old one. However, his- he should be the last man to vindicate any tory was now to be avoided. We were individual who had misconducted himself. getting upon a new era, and every thing With respect to his own clergy, he was was to be begun de novo. In confirma- happy to state that he knew not a single tion of this new state of things, a right instance of that nature. In fact, so far reverend prelate had referred to the popu- had they been from inciting their parishlar feeling, and had told their lordships, ioners to petition, that, in many instances, how very much the new light had ex- the parishioners waited on them in a body tended. He had said, that all the young and pressed them to put their names at men of talent and wisdom-in short, that the head of their petitions. For himself, the concentrated wisdom, talent, and good whenever any of his clergy had asked his sense of the country, were all on one side. opinion with respect to the propriety of The right reverend prelate admitted, to petitioning, he had told them, that he be sure, that authority was on his (the would give no advice, and that they must bishop of Durham's) side; but then that act on their own convictions. In speaking forsooth, availed nothing against the new of the clergy, he spoke of a body of men light. He should like to know upon whom he had known long and intimately what calculation the assertion was founded, as part of his own profession. He had that the petitioners on one side were long mixed with them in every degree, gifted with sagacity, and that all those on from the time when he was a humble the other were afflicted with folly? village curate, up to the period when he was raised to his present high dignity, and he had always found them men possessing great good sense and information, and in every other respect qualified for the high duties which they had to perform. Some very invidious observations had been made, in that House, with respect to the

With respect to the people of England, he really must stand up and say a word for them. He was not an advocate for following mere popular feeling: he knew that it was often incorrect, and often under the influence of very unworthy persons; but he would say, that amongst the

The Bishop of Oxford said, in explana tion :-My lords, the right rev. prelate has alluded to what has fallen from me; and, I confess, it affords me very great satisfaction that he has mistaken altogether the substance of my arguments; for if he had known the true arguments which I brought forward, I am sure he would have replied to them much more powerfully than he has done. I would also observe, that I am too much beholden to my right reverend brother, to utter towards him one single word of discourtesy or disrespect. In the first place, the right rev. prelate has assumed, that I, in my professional capacity as regius professor of divinity, attempted to promulgate the doctrine, that measures of state policy should be argued on grounds of expediency alone, without any reference to the immutable rules of morality. The direct contrary is the case; Sir, I expressly declared, that I could not agree with the learned doctor who made this assertion, and that I thought all measures, even of

156 influence of the clergy. If he did not servations to make with respect to the mistake, it had been said, that a greater oaths proposed in the bill. In conclusion, degree of spiritual domination prevailed he begged to express the deep obligation in the Church of England than in the which he felt to the right reverend prelates Church of Rome. He hoped he might who had opposed the measure, and partibe allowed to make a few observations, in cularly to the most reverend prelate who answer to that assertion. He would say had moved, that the bill be read a second nothing of the power of excommunication time that day six months, possessed by the Church of Rome. would stand only on the article of auricular confession. That was a power which was exercised over the thoughts, words, and actions of every individual. It laid bare the consciences of men to their spiritual advisers, and gave them a power over their most secret springs of action. He was not doing so absurd a thing as to appeal to that "old almanack" history, but was speaking of a fact which was perfectly known at the present moment. He asked their lordships, whether a clergyman of the Church of England would presume to go into a gentleman's house, and extract his thoughts from him? A clergyman of the Church of England had not the powerto do so; in fact, the Church of England had no power over individuals. [The right hon. prelate was here inaudible for a short time: when next we heard him, he was stating that the question was mainly a religious one.] He could not forget, he said, that he had already declared his opinion of the nature of the Roman Catholic religion. He had de-state policy, should be regulated, accordclared it to be idolatrous and superstitious. Having sincerely given that opinion, of the correctness of which he was persuaded by the studious consideration of nearly forty years, he felt that he should be infringing the duty which he owed to a higher tri-a powerful effect. The second charge bunal than their lordships, if he did any thing which in his conscience he believed would tend to strengthen that religion. He might be considered a fanatic; but he hoped it was not considered fanatical to believe that there was a divine Providence to whom he owed a high and sacred duty. He felt that he could not act otherwise than he was now doing-he felt that he dared not do that which would be offensive to a higher power-namely, give his as sent to a measure calculated to strengthen the Roman Catholic religion.

He begged pardon for having detained their lordships so long. He had now very imperfectly expressed what he had intended to say, and had omitted much which he ought to have stated. It was probable that he might hereafter have some ob

ing to the immutable rules of morality; but that there were questions which had been argued on the grounds of expediency alone, and on this question that I thought the grounds of expediency ought to have

which the right rev. prelate has made against me is, that I asserted, that the penal statutes formed a part of the constitution. Now, I appeal to your lordships whether I did not say, that the entire constitution was such, as to rest in the government, legislature, and an executive power; and that the penal statutes were in existence at the time of the Revolution, but they had been already broken in upon; and that, therefore, the question was not,-whether the laws which were established at the time of the Revolution, should be preserved inviolate, as those laws had been already broken in upon?— The third point in my speech, to which my right rev. friend alluded, was this:He assumed, that I had extolled the æra, when reason and the march of intellect

My lords, were I to follow my own inclination, I should dismiss from my thoughts all matter which I conceive not immediately connected with the measure before us; but endeavour at once to grapple with the merits of the bill as to its propriety, and its expediency.

had assumed the sway in England, and divinity, makes it absolutely incumbent that I rejoiced that the young minds of on me to come to a conclusion for our countrymen were all in favour of myself, since, when doctors differ, other concession to the Roman Catholics. On men may fairly consider themselves justithe contrary, I lamented that such a fied in forming an unbiassed opinion of change had taken place, and I believe I their own, as they are forced by an imperepeat my words-I wished to God that rious and urgent necessity to think and such were not the case. The fourth point act for themselves. on which the right rev. prelate misunderstood me, was :-He supposed that I had asserted, that the spiritual power of the pope remained unshaken, although his temporal power had been lessened. What I said was, that the doctrine and faith of the Roman Catholic Church remained the same, although I rejoiced to find, that those principles which were so much objected to the Roman Catholics, were given up. The last thing, of which the right rev. prelate accused me, was, deprecating the sentiments of Mr. Faber; but, although I expressed my dissent from the arguments urged by that gentleman, I, at the same time, declared the high notion which I held of his moral virtues and worth :-I have now, I believe, explained the five points in my speech, on which the right rev. prelate dwelt at such length; and, I trust I have explained them to the satisfaction of your lordships.

His Royal Highness the Duke of Sussex rose and said :*-My lords, I have listened with a considerable degree of attention to the speech which has just been delivered by the right rev. prelate who spoke the last but one, and to which a reply has just been given by another right rev. prelate, whose powerful and able address I had the extreme gratification to hear last night. I sincerely lament that the opinions expressed by the other right reverend lord this evening, are not in accordance with my own, but I fully agree with that right reverend prelate as to the importance of the duties which we both of us have to discharge, and of the line of conduct which I conscientiously feel it becomes me to adopt. I may, however, be permitted to observe, that, if I had ever before entertained doubts upon this subject, which is not the case, the difference of opinion, as now explained, and stated to exist, between the two right reverend prelates, upon this vital and important question, both of whom have formerly filled the chair of regius professor of

• Inserted with the permission and approbation of His Royal Highness.

This would reduce the subject for our consideration into a very narrow compass; but so many topics, previous to the introduction of this bill, have been raised, and asserted, both here and elsewhere, although as constantly combatted as successfully refuted on former occasions, of a tendency to mislead and inflame the public mind, that I cannot resist noticing them, with a view of repelling again and again mere assertions, by such arguments as, I trust and hope, will carry conviction to the minds, and satisfy the conscience, of every reasonable man,

Of the expediency of the measure with those who, like myself, have for more than twenty years contended for its adoption, there can be no doubt. Indeed, I may safely add, that new proselytes have every year been made to the sacred cause of civil and religious liberty; but I own, that where I ought to look for the greatest support of this measure-I mean to those who particularly consider themselves the select, and are known by the name of the confidential friends and firm supporters of Mr. Pitt's principles, there I am sadly disappointed.

That Mr. Pitt was correct in his views of this important question, and as sincere in his desire of bringing it to a happy conclusion, as either Mr. Fox, Mr. Grattan, my noble friend near me (earl Grey), lord Grenville, Mr. Windham, or Mr. Canning, and many other distinguished characters were and are, and whose names would be too numerous for me to mention at the present moment, but to whom the country at large will owe an eternal debt of gratitude, when this great measure shall be finally accomplished, as I trust it will shortly be, I have no doubt, and do most positively affirm.

Of late years, papers, which never were

intended to meet the public eye, and which | principle itself, and objecting only to the I conceive ought never to have been pub-time, and to the temper, and the circumlished, as such an act is not only a breach stances of the moment. That Letter of public duty and trust, but a disclosure of private confidence, and an infringement of all the laws of courtesy, recognized by and established in civil society, have appeared in print. I therefore, like every other individual, have a right to take advantage of those statements, although I will return no thanks to the officious editors of them, whose prudence and motives I condemn and reprobate in the strongest terms.*

In referring to Mr. Pitt's Letter to his late Majesty, which is now become a regular historical record, after stating his unalterable opinion, as to the expediency of admitting Roman Catholics into parliament and offices, with a view to the tranquillity and improvement of Ireland, and to the general interests of the United Kingdom, I observe, that he goes on to add that, should his majesty's sentiments undergo no change on this head, and his (Mr. Pitt's) suggestions not meet with his majesty's sanction, he must then be under the necessity of tendering his resignation. But he offers that, should the chief difficulties of the then crisis not be surmounted, or very materially diminished, and should his majesty continue to think that his humble exertions would in any degree contribute to conducting them to a final issue, in that case he would continue in office for a short time longer, and would oppose the agitation or discussion of the question as far as "he can," consistently with the line to which he feels bound uniformly to adhere, of reserving to himself a full latitude in the

* Upon an explanation which took place in the course of the debate between the duke of Sussex and lord Kenyon, it appeared that the Letter of Mr. Pitt to his late Majesty, and to which his royal highness referred, was published by the noble lord with the sanction of the highest authority in the empire, as well as with the permission of Mr. Pitt's nearest relations. The duke of Sussex therefore felt himself called upon to express to his lordship his regret upon the occasion, with an assurance at the same time that he had been labouring all along under a mistake, for he had always understood that Mr. Pitt's Letter to his late Majesty had been given to the public by a late right rev. prelate, who had found it amongst some books and papers of that deceased statesman, which had, by some accident, come into his possession.

bears date the 31st January 1801, and, if my memory serves me right, the opposition offered by the various administrations which have been formed since that period (save the short administration of 1806 and 1807) to the different motions proposed for the relief of our Roman Catholic fellow-subjects, has constantly, uniformly, and solely rested upon the topics suggested by Mr. Pitt in that Letter to his late Majesty-not as to the wisdom and justice of the measure, for Mr. Pitt never had a moment's doubt on that subject; but that the time was either not yet come, that the circumstances of the moment would not allow of the question being brought forward, or that the public mind was too much agitated.

The noble duke now at the head of his majesty's council, has, thank God, adopted another course, and manfully comes forward, and tells us that the time is arrived for the adjustment of this great question, and that he and his colleagues have, upon their responsibility, advised that a gracious communication should be made from the Crown, inviting the two Houses of Parliament to consider whether an arrangement can be made to satisfy the petitions of the Roman Catholics, presented for the last twenty-five years, consistently with the full and permanent security of our establishments, in church and state, with the maintenance of the Reformed religion established by law, and of the rights andTM privileges of the bishops and of the clergy of this realm, and of the churches committed to their charge.

To this communication various objections have been and are made, such as, first, that the measure in contemplation is a violation of, or breaking in upon, the constitution of 1688. Now, my lords, this I deny. As a member of the royal family, I claim as full credit for entertaining no wish to encroach upon the great prerogative of the Crown, as I do in my capacity of a peer of parliament, for my anxiety to do justice to every class of his majesty's subjects. My lords, I repeat then again, that I deny that the measure in contemplation is calculated to break in upon the constitution of 1688.

My lords, this is a large assertion, and in my opinion is not only unsupported by the settlement of the constitution at that