of that letter; on the contrary, I think that he was extremely ill used in having it published without his consent. The Earl of Falmouth also rose to explain. I must entreat your lordships not to allow this question to go to a decision, without allowing me to clear myself from the imputation of having either excited or attempted to excite a cry against the noble duke [loud cries of "spoke "]. I must explain, my lords [cries of "no, no; spoke, spoke"]. Then, if the noble duke means to say that I have excited a cry The Earl of Falmouth.-I can assure your lordships, that nothing ever fell from my lips calculated to excite a cry against the noble duke. On the contrary, all that I have said with respect to the noble duke on this question was intended to be said with the utmost courtesy ; and I repel with scorn and indignation the insinuation, that I ever attempted to excite any cry against the noble duke [hear, hear]. The cry of "divide, divide," then became general. Strangers were removed from the bar, and their lordships divided. The numbers were-Content, present, 147; proxies, 70-217. Not content, present, 79; Proxies, 33-112. Majority in favour of the second reading of the bill, 105. The bill was then read a second time, amidst loud and repeated cheers. List of the Majority and also of the Minority. Earl Grey rose to order. I apprehend that no noble lord, after he has once spoken, has any right to be heard at length, except to give an explanation of any misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the words used by him in the course of his speech. The House is not to have its time wasted in hearing an irregular explanation of the conduct of any of its members. If a noble lord complains that his speech has been misunderstood, he is entitled to set himself right with the Clarence House, and the words which he states himself to have used must be considered as the words which he actually said. to any thing that has passed elsewhere, the noble lord, having once spoken, is not entitled to set himself right here. Dukes. Sussex CONTENT.-PRESENT. Lord Chancellor As Lord President The Earl of Falmouth.-The course which is adopted towards me on this occasion will not cause me to desist from the opposition which I have hitherto given to this bill. I will take every opportunity of meeting it with my decided opposition. I must say that the noble earl and the noble lords behind him have departed no little from the usual courtesy of the House in Lord Holland.-I rise to order. I know not what may be the rule of the other House in cases like the present, for I never had the honour of holding a seat there; but I do know that in this House, if the statements of any lord are misinterpreted or misunderstood, he has a right to state what he did say, and the House is bound to consider his explanation satisfactory. Now, the noble earl rose, not to explain any words that he had used, but motives and feelings unconnected with them; and having risen a second time to day for that purpose, he is now guilty of a double breach of order in censuring the motives of such members as are inclined to differ with him as to the regularity of his proceeding, Lord Privy Seal Beaufort Rutland Somerset Bristol Earls. Albemarle Earls. Carrick PROXIES. Nelson Rochfort Scarborough Viscount. Exmouth Bishops. Hereford Peterborough Worcester Lords. Bagot Bayning Churchill Roden relief. With reference, first, then, to the Clanbrassil (Earl of petitions which complained of the restriction put upon the titles of Roman Catholic bishops, although he objected to it entirely, yet he thought it not, after all, a matter of such great importance. He believed, indeed, that the right rev. persons who were to be affected by it, did not attach Dalhousie (Earl) Donegall) Gray St. Helens Wallace Wodehouse HOUSE OF LORDS. Fisherwick (Marq. of any considerable consequence to the clause, for they were above worldly considerations. It was certainly an attack upon their supposed condition in the church to which Loftus (Marq. of Ely) they belonged; but, at the same time, it Le Despencer was a matter of notoriety, that they did not use the clerical titles alluded to in the manner which some supposed. He knew Willoughby de Broke they were never addressed by their ecclesiastical titles, nor never signed their names as such. He wished, therefore, that this act had gone forth without having a clause of this kind levelled against the Roman Catholic bishops; because the bill would have then passed with better ROMAN CATHOLIC CLAIMS-PETI- grace. As to the next clause, which apTIONS FOR AND AGAINST.] The Mar-peared to have more of an individual quis of Anglesey said, he had several application, he wished it had been spared. petitions to present to their lordships, some It was directed against an individual who, for the repeal of the penal laws affecting if he were (as he had been by some called) the Roman Catholics-some against the an agitator for the mere sake of agitation, clauses of the bill for the relief of that had it now in his power most amply to body, which related to the putting down create the greatest agitation; for he had of monastic institutions, and to forbid only to go up, as he was entitled to do, to the residence of Jesuits in this kingdom- the table of the House of Commons, and some against the clause which denied their refuse to take the oaths which would there titular rank to the Catholic bishops-some be tendered to him; when, as a matagainst the clause which seemed to affect ter of course, his seat must be vacated, the case of an individual member of the and a new writ forthwith issued; and House of Commons; and all nearly com- then they would have given to them again plaining in general terms of the dis- the great amusement of a new Clare election. franchisement of the forty-shilling free- That gentleman, however, as he was inholders. Nobody was more sensible than formed, had no thought of making such a he was of the inconvenience of debating movement, and had, in fact, distinctly these topics upon the presentation of peti- stated that he had given up his own case tions; but he felt that, in saying a few words for the public good, and lest it should in upon them on the present occasion, he should the slightest degree interfere with the be rather economizing the time of the great question which was now about to House, and very much shortening what he be settled. As to the danger to be guarded should have otherwise to say, if he waited against by the clause affecting Jesuits and to take a part in the general debate. He monastic institutions, he protested he knew should therefore avail himself of the pre- nothing of it in Ireland, nor had he entersentation of these petitions to state the tained the least apprehension from such grounds of his objection to the bill which bodies. History, he knew, recorded some stood for discussion on that night, and at of their misdeeds; but Ireland was not the the same time to notify, that when he had scene of them. There, indeed, these stated them, he should refrain from people were only known as devoting themtroubling their lordships any further upon selves to the education of youth; and the subject; being determined by no act whatever became of their titles or names, of his to risk the auspicious progress of he hoped the youth of Ireland would not the great and general measure of Catholic be bereft of whatever useful instruction not. their lordships would allow him, on the was provided for them by such means. The Marquis of Londonderry hoped They might still, he supposed, remain as teachers; only they would not continue to bear the name of Jesuits. But all these things (continued the noble marquis) are light compared to what I feel about the forty-shilling freeholders. I acknowledge that the system as it now exists is vicious -pernicious in the extreme. But can there be no remedy? Must 460,000 persons suffer because there is vice in a part of the system? At present, it is little better than a premium upon fraud and perjury. But I say, correct the system without infringing upon vested rights; or if even the system be incorrigible, at least let the remedy be prospective. Let the gested the propriety of settling some propresent leases run out, and renew them vision upon the Catholic clergy, as a This is the way the subject strikes suitable accompaniment to the general bill me. These freeholders were first created of relief. He was still desirous to see for electioneering purposes. As long as something of that kind arranged; although they allowed themselves to be driven to the perhaps, it would be best done by a private hustings, like sheep to the shambles, with- arrangement after the question was carried, out a will of their own, all was well,-not and as following a measure of justice to a murmur was heard; but the moment the Catholic laity. The noble marquis these poor people found out the value of here read some extracts, which were their tenure, the moment they exerted understood to be statements of the opinions their power constitutionally,-that instant expressed by his brother upon these points, they are swept out of political existence. but which the low conversation carried on I cannot approve this. I do not say that by several peers at the time, prevented us practically some good may not arise; but from hearing. This great measure, he I do say that theoretically the principle is proceeded to state, could only be carried indefensible. There is, however, at least this by the energies of one man-by a minister excuse there is nothing exclusive. Pro- who was capable of securing the contestant and Catholic share and share alike; fidence of his sovereign, the co-operation and there is always this prospect-that as of both Houses of parliament, and the Ireland improves,-which she inevitably good opinions of the people. No man will do,-equal laws will be established for could combine such important assistance the three kingdoms, and there will be but as his illustrious friend. He agreed, one law for the whole empire. These are indeed, that it would have been better had my objections. I wish ministers could be this question been settled at the time of prevailed upon to reconsider these points the Union with Ireland. The ministers of and to correct them. I am certain they that day were quite aware of such a neceswould have reason to rejoice in doing so. sity; but although they had the will, they Nevertheless, if they are inexorable, I, for had not the power to accomplish it. In one, will offer no opposition that shall fact, up to the present time, no minister endanger the great measure on which rests had the power of consolidating so much: all my hopes and expectations. I think support for so great an object. With rethe price I am required to pay is high, but ference to the standard fixed for the elecI must have the article. It is an invalua- tive franchise under the new bill, in his ble one; and that price I am determined opinion, as well as in that of those who to pay, if I cannot get it cheaper. Having were best competent to judge of it in thus explained my views, your lordships Ireland, it ought not to be fixed so low as will understand the grounds upon which I 107., but rather raised to 157. or 201. shall vote, without again intruding myself Anxious as he was, to see that augmentaupon you. The first petition I have to tion take place, he should take no step present is from the city of Waterford, which could in any degree retard the proagainst the clause affecting religious insti-gress of the principal bill. He likewise tutions. disapproved of the manner in which the Lord Carbery said, he had never witnessed more ungrateful and ungracious conduct than these petitions evinced. To see the Catholics of Ireland hastening forward at a moment when a Protestant legislature was engaged in removing all their civil disabilities, to claim the continuance of an irregular and unnatural influence, was, he repeated, an ungracious and incongruous spectacle. He felt their ingratitude, and could not help expressing his indignation. The Marquis of Clanricarde said, he must defend the Catholics of Ireland from the sweeping attack of the noble lord, whose censure he must be permitted to say, was, on the present occasion, most unfounded. If any thing had peculiarly marked the conduct of the Catholics of Ireland at this crisis, it was their silence during the progress through parliament of these measures. Indeed, so apparent was this conduct on their part, that it had been elsewhere used as an argument against the sense of injury which the forty-shilling freeholders were supposed to endure, that they had not sent forth petitions against the bill. proposed new registration was to be effect- | benches would, when this question passed ed. He disliked the power which it vest-re-unite in supporting that main principle ed in the assistant barristers: for if a man of government which the noble duke had were prone to be partial, he would have with them so long and so ably sustained, the means of exercising his partiality, in and which had raised this country to the the examination of individual claims to highest pitch of glory and prosperity. freeholds. The difficulty at present was how to examine the machinery of the bill in time to amend it, consistent with its accompanying the other measure. It was the misfortune of Ireland to have very defective laws upon these matters. They all required revision; and the events of last year fully demonstrated that fact. The noble marquis opposite had said, on a former occasion, that he wished to have an investigation made into his administration of the Irish government, and that he would hereafter call for that inquiry. Now he could assure the noble marquis, that he had no wish to bring forward such a charge against him; but he must assure him at the same time, that the intercourse which he permitted in his private society, to Mr. O'Connell, Mr Lawless, and certain prominent individuals of the Catholic Association, had had the effect of imparting to his government, in the minds of the people of the north of Ireland, an air of partiality, which he was sure could never have been intended by the noble marquis, and of producing there that reaction, when Mr. Lawless made his incursion into the north, which was so likely to be attended with consequences dangerous to the Lord Lyttelton said, it would be in the public peace. He repeated, that he did not recollection of their lordships that last mean to take any step to impede the pre-week, in the performance of his duty, and sent bill, trusting that the illustrious duke upon information which he had reason to would hereafter take care to watch its believe correct, coming as it did from perpractical operation, and give that security sons who he was sure would not communito property to which it was entitled, and cate intelligence which they knew to be uphold it from the violence of popular false, he had made a statement respecting agitation. Those who had large stakes in Dr. Forrester, in which he had accused the country, and were identified with its that reverend divine of having countepeace and prosperity, ought to be protect-nanced the circulation of an inflammatory ed from unnecessary risk and danger. placard in his parish of St. John's, He rejoiced at the settlement of this great Worcester. On Saturday last, being the question, and no man better deserved the morning after he had last spoken upon magnificent eulogium which had been pro- this subject, he had received a letter, in nounced upon him on Saturday, by the which Dr. Forrester declared upon the noble earl opposite. His confidence had word of a gentleman, which he was willing always been reposed in the noble duke, if need were to convert into an affidavit, who had had it through good report and that he had no knowledge whatever of evil report, in times of peril and of triumph: that placard, and in which he entered he had always freely bestowed it, like into a full account of the manner in which an honest man, upon one whom he knew that petition had been got up. He held deserved well of his country. In alluding it to be the duty of every member of parliato the state of parties in that House, he ment to correct any false impression which trusted that the noble lords on the cross-might have got abroad through his means, |