heads, by their unnatural though politic restrictions; by their exclusive and arrogant pretensions; by their dangerous, and, as it was until of late supposed, unconstitutional connection with a foreign power. With other sects, ascendancy is hopeless; their opposition is confined to matters of inferior moment; it ceases when the common cause of Protestantism is endangered. With the Roman Catholics of Ireland ascendancy will be placed within their reach by this measure; and with the Roman Catholic priesthood, the promotion of the interests of their church is their point of honour: it ranks, in their estimation, above country, kindred, and friends. It is, then, the confederacy of the Romish priesthood, actuated by a never-dying hostility to what is Protestant, that we have to dread; and not merely that of Roman Catholic representatives, who, it may be thought, will be acted upon and divided into parties like other men. If we are told, indeed, that Romish counsellors and Romish legislators are found to be in foreign states as honest and patriotic as men of other creeds, I would answer that, without minutely sifting the truth of the assertion, the cases are, in my opinion, quite dissimilar. In the instances alluded to, the Roman Catholic religion is either already the established one-and, in that case the point is carried, and there is nothing further to be gained by agitation-or else the government is absolute, there is no voice heard but its own; and should a disposition to encroachment on the part of the Romish church be manifested, a single rescript from a minister would suffice for the correction of the evil. With us the Romanists constitute an active party in the commonwealth,-dangerous to our establishments, in proportion to the power with which it is invested; ever restless, because it has still an object to attain, and constantly excited to fresh machinations, by the increasing hope of accomplishing its purpose. I do not, however, mean to say, that the subversion of the Irish Church establishment will be immediate on the passing of this bill, nor do I think that it will be far removed from it. It is probable that, at first, the approaches will be cautious, and concealed under various pretences; until at length the assailants shall become emboldened by success, and favoured by political occur rences. I ask, then-for this appears to me to be the only fair and intelligible way of discussing the question-are you prepared, my lords, to go the length to which you will be urged, after you have conceded all that is now demanded? Are you prepared to sacrifice the Irish Church establishment and the Protestant institutions connected with it-to efface the Protestant character of the Irish portion of the empire-to transfer from Protestants to Roman Catholics the ascendancy in Ireland ?-for to one or other of these opposed parties, it is admitted on all hands, ascendancy must be granted. I would fain hope, my lords, that those who view with indifference the establishment of popery in Ireland, know not what that religion is in its practical effects upon the human mind. It has been represented to your lordships, within the last few years, in the form most capable of bearing the light of day-the line of defence taken up by its champions has been that of extenuation and apology, and some have described it in harsher terms. I shall not, however, trouble your lordships with a theological discussion: suffice it to say, that those doctrines and practices of the Romish Church-which, however modified or disguised, form the distinguishing features of her creed-are in irreconcileable variance with purity of faith and morals-the firmest basis of national prosperity and individual happiness. I do not think that England, with her intelligence and her independent spirit of inquiry, will ever become a vassal of the pope of Rome, but I do think that, with a considerable number of the representative Roman Catholics, and with a large proportion of the remainder, either indifferent to, or dissenting from, the established religion, her church will share the fate of our ownher ascendancy and incorporation with the state will be no longer maintained—the equal right to national support and national favour will be asserted for sects the most erroneous and the most discordant; a neglect of religious truths will ensue, and the pure light of the Reformation be extinguished here also. I thank you, my lords, for the courteous attention with which you have listened to me; and, whatever impression my observations may have made upon your minds, I feel that, in delivering them, I have discharged a duty which I owe to the Church of Ireland, and to that of England also,— if those establishments are to be spoken of as distinct, which the legislature has in dissolubly united. In conclusion, my lords, I would only add, that if I am asked what is to be done for Ireland, I explicitly answer -tolerate, but do not encourage, still less do any thing to establish, religious error; cherish, with equal care, all classes of his majesty's subjects; withhold nothing in the spirit of monopóly, which can be safely granted; but, for the sake of allyes, for the sake of Roman Catholics themselves, let the constitution be ever Protestant in its essential members,-in its monarch, and in his responsible advisers;-in its legislature,-in its public institutions for education;-but, above all, in its religious establishment. The Bishop of Oxford (Dr. Lloyd) rose and said :-My lords; when I first had the honour of a seat in this House, it was my wish to offer myself as rarely as possible to your lordships' notice, and I made the determination never to do so, unless I was compelled by a paramount sense of duty; being fully satisfied that, in every matter of secular legislation, my advice and opinion would be of little assistance to your lordships, and that in every thing relating to the ecclesiastical concerns of this empire, there are many of my right reverend brethren much more able, and at the same time much more willing than myself, to explain those matters to your lordships. My lords, I shall not pretend to address myself to any of the arguments delivered to your lordships by either of the most reverend prelates, because the respect that I owe to their high stations prevents me from doing so; and because I am bound to the most reverend prelate of all England by every tie of gratitude, attachment, and respect. My lords, I think your lordships will agree with me, that this is one of those occasions on which I should not be justified in remaining silent. Were I to content myself with a silent vote, opinions might be attributed to me directly opposite to those which I maintain, and my vote must be supposed to arise out of motives which I should be anxious to disavow; and I am desirous, therefore, to be permitted to explain to your lordships the grounds on which I intend to support the measure now before your lordships. My lords, the noble and learned lord on the cross-bench, in a speech delivered by him in 1821, and, I believe, published with his permission, after examining with much learning and ability what are, and what are not the fundamental and essential laws of the English constitution, as settled at the Revolution, stated, that "although parliament could not absolutely be bound by its enactments for all generations, yet that the laws then settled being essentially fundamental, they were as unalterable as they could be; and that those who proposed to change them, were bound to shew that there was a cogent necessity for the change." My lords, whether that noble and learned lord has proved, that the constitution was then made essentially Protestant, I do not now inquireneither affirm nor deny it. But, my lords, he has, at the same time, admitted, that if a cogent necessity could be proved, such a change, or at least the proposal of such a change, would be justifiable. My lords, I conceive that such a cogent necessity has been proved, short only of that last and irresistible necessity, which would resemble physical force, and would leave no room for argument or doubt. I conceive that an impossibility has been proved of maintaining things in the state in which they now are,-I conceive this to have been proved-by the state of the Irish representation-by the quantity of armed force which it has been necessary to main tain in Ireland for the security of life and property--by the balanced state of both Houses of the legislature-by the progress of public opinion-and by a circumstance which appears to me to be beyond all possibility of reasonable doubt, the course which has of late years been taken by the talent and education of the country. To this last circumstance I attach, I confess, very great importance, because it seems to me to prove the impossibility of maintaining a permanent system of exclusion; and of the fact I have no doubt whatever. My lords, I think the very state of this House proves the fact; for I ask the noble duke on the cross-bench-that noble duke, who, through the whole of these debates, has maintained a manly opposition to these measures of the government-and who by the generosity of his tone, has softened, as far as he was concerned, the asperity of these discussions, and assuaged the bitterness of these times,-I ask that noble duke, who has exhorted all noble lords to rally under the banner of the noble and learned lord, (of whom he ought, I think, to have said, not that he is now, but that he always has been at the head of the Pro this necessity, or by the causes, however cogent, which I have now stated, that I propose to regulate my vote; for these causes, my lords, were all antecedent to the decisions of the ministers-and all, I suppose, operated in producing that decision. But the question comes before this Housecomes before your lordships-comes before me-after the king's government have advised his majesty to recommend this measure to his parliament-after they have told his majesty that it is in vain any longer to fight the battle, and to contend with the impossibilities which surround them; and it is this circumstance, my lords, that makes me consider it now absolutely impossible that the adjustment of this question should be delayed. My lords, this question comes before this House recommended by his majesty from the throne, seconded by the strong and explicit declaration of the heir presumptive-supported, as I believe, by every branch of the royal family, except the illustrious prince who is now sitting on the cross-benches-sent up with an overwhelming majority from the other House of Parliament-supported by all those noble lords who have always maintained the injustice, the impolicy, the inexpe testant party of this House);I ask that noble duke, whether the noble and learned lord himself, and those who have chiefly joined that noble and learned lord, are not a proof of what I am stating, concerning the rising talent of the country. My lords, those noble lords who are at the head of the opposition to his majesty's government, (let it not be said with any unkind or ungentlemanly feeling, but rather with every feeling of astonishment and admiration) those noble lords have now reached that time of life when most men have seceded from the busy scene of human life-when far the greater part, indeed, have been called away, altogether, from this sublunary scene of things. I ask the noble duke, whether these are not the men of whom his party has most reason to be proud? And, taking that criterion, which is the only one I can find, I ask, whether all those who, in the prime of life, and who have been called to the public offices of the state, and to the public service of the country, have not passed over to the other side? And this being the case, my lords, I ask whether it is possible for any man to believe that the exclusion of the Catholics from political power can be expected to be permanent? My lords, I have known many who have wished anxi-diency of these restrictions-supported by ously wished, that this exclusion might be permanent; but I have not for some years, met with one person who believed that it would be so. They have wished, my lords, but have known, my lords, that their wishes would be ineffectual. My lords, while I state that such is my solemn conviction of the progress and continuing course of public opinion throughout the country, I do not say that I rejoice in that progress-on the contrary, my lords, I should have seen with far greater pleasure, opinions taking a different course. I should have preferred, my lords, to see the educated persons of the country declaring themselves in favour of the old and existing institutions of the kingdom-but such, my lords, is not the case. The stream has passed into a different channel, and is, in my judgment, uncontrollable by any human power; and it remains only for those who, like myself, behold these things with fear, and agony, and sorrow, to rely upon that wise and bounteous Providence, who can turn all things unto good, can bring light out of darkness, and order out of anarchy. But, my lords, it is not even on the grounds of all those who have fought under the banners of the noble Chancellor of the university of Oxford, or under that of the illustrious statesman, whom Providence has now withdrawn from the councils of this country-and now, my lords, supported by the united government of his majesty-by those, especially, who have been hitherto considered, and, I think, considered truly, the champions of the Protestant interests of England. Such, my lords, are the circumstances under which this measure comes before us, and the only question which I have proposed to myself since the first recommendation of this measure from the throne, has been this,--What will be the effect of the rejection of this measure, in case it should be rejected? What will be the effect of such rejection upon the best interests of Church and State? My lords, the only effect that I can foresee is this, that it will pass after the interval of a year or twoand who can look forward to such an interval of anarchy, of bloodshed, and confusion, My lords, I am not one of those who, in a case in which the high interests of liberty and religion are concerned, think war, necessary war, unchristian or unlawful. I have not so been taught, I have not so learned the articles of the Church of England. But, my lords, before I do an act, which might lead, and must lead, probably, to such a war, I must be satisfied, that when the battle shall have been fought, and the blood shall have been shed, we shall not be left exactly where we were when we began. And, unless this can be shewn to me, I should deem the entering into such a war, I should think that, to do an act which, in my judgment, must lead inevitably to such a war-an act unchristian and unlawful. My lords, if the rejection of this bill should produce such an effect, should bring these principles into immediate practical operation, I should fear a great and terrible re-action-a re-action which would cast down the Church of England not slowly and gradually, but rapidly, im4 mediately, and precipitously. My lords, these are the grounds on which I propose to give my vote in favour of the measures of his majesty's government. I shall sup port these measures, because I believe this bill, if rejected, would still pass in a year: or two; and because I dread such an interval, for fear of dangers both ecclesiastical and civil. My lords, I had come to this deterBut, my lords, speaking as a churchman, mination without any doubt or hesitations I ask myself another question,-To whom, though I will not say without much if this measure be rejected, are we to in- sorrow and regret ;-but I had come to it, trust the Protestant interests-the inter- my lords, under the full conviction that, ests and welfare of the Church? I look as an honest man, anxious to discharge around, my lords, and among those who his duty according to his conscience, and are opposed to these measures, I see after the fullest consideration of the case, none, in whose hands, I think, the un- I could give no other vote. I had come divided management of those interests to this conclusion, my lords, when mys would, under present circumstances, be mind became disturbed by letters put into safe. My lords, I feel the greatest re- my hands, of which the whole gist and spect towards that noble duke on the object was to shew, that it was unlawful cross-bench, who, in another place, by the to vote in favour of this bill-that such establishments which he has founded in an act was sinful and irreligious, and that the place to which he owes his education, all who did so were guilty of a defection has shewn his true and genuine zeal for from the truth-were traitors to their conthe advancement of God's glory and the science and their God. Your lordships improvement of sound learning. My lords, will not require any evidence of such I feel a high respect for the zeal and charges. I dare say there are some noble chivalry of that noble earl, who has ad- lords even now prepared to reiterate them dressed the Protestants of England, how--and they are evidently the very argu ever wild that zeal may be in its nature, and however dangerous its instruments. But, my lords, I dare not do an act which should, even for the interval which I have stated, throw the undivided management of the Church of England into the hands of those noble lords. My lords, I cannot forget that the Church of England has been once, and once only, prostrate in the dust-prostrate, my lords, not by the intrigues of Papists, but by the violence of My lords, the first argument that has Puritans by men irritated and driven to been stated by a very learned clergyman madness, by the rash and imprudent as--a clergyman deservedly of great name sertions of those high principles, which, even in the time of Charles Ist had long gone by-of principles, my lords, which, however abstractedly true, have ever been fatal and disastrous in their operation, through the whole history of England-of principles which I never advocated, and never will advocate. ments which have alarmed and awakened the religious feelings of the people of this country. I desire therefore to be al lowed to consider those arguments, with the view of shewing that the act of my right reverend brethren and myself who support this bill is not an act of sin, and with the view also of dissolving, if it may) be, some of the fears of the people of this country. in the church-a man of great learning' and ability, and the most unquestionable respectability and moral worth has been this-that in admitting the Roman Catholics to parliament, we are making a political union with idolatry. My lords, the words are these, "that the senators who shall so vote are insulting God to his such as that of Solomon with Ophir and Tarshish. But I need not, surely, tell your lordships that arguments from the Old Testament are of little use in any case of this kind. I need not tell your lordships, that the circumstances of the Jew very face, by forming a national amalga- | Catholic countries, with France, Italy, and mation, in defiance of his own threats and Spain. For this, my lords, is the union prohibitions, with a system which they with idolatry, of which the scripture themselves, in his absolute presence, have speaks-commerce, my lords, and trade declared, without equivocation, to be idolatrous and superstitious." My lords, if this charge had come from one of less credit in the church than the individual who has published it, I should have passed it over, as the other effusions of the public papers, altogether without no-ish people were different from those of tice. But I should not now think myself any other nation-nor need I remind you, justified in doing so. My lords, the ar- that it was out of arguments of this kind guments of the reverend writer stand that the follies of the Puritans of England thus: "Every member of this House has and the Covenanters of Scotland arose. sworn, that the invocation of saints and My lords, these objections the writer of the sacrifice of the mass are superstitious these letters calls captious, I must be bold and idolatrous therefore he has sworn to say, my lords, that these objections that all papists are idolatrous; therefore have been made by every divine of the by admitting Roman Catholics into par- Church of England-and that it is now liament, he is voting, according to his own fully understood that the commandments oath, for a political union with idolatry of this kind found in the Old Testament, but such an union has God's curse de- were applicable only to the chosen people nounced against it: therefore every mem- of God. My lords, the learned divine now ber of this House who shall vote for the turns to the New Testament, and I also admission of Roman Catholics into either turned to his arguments from that volume, House of parliament, is exposing his with an interest more painful than I ever country to the certain and necessary felt-and what did I find ?—one text, judgment of Almighty God." My lords, I my lords, from the Apocalypse-a text too, cannot describe to your lordships the hor- which I confess appears to me to have no ror which I first experienced when I read reference whatever to the subject of a this argument, coming from such a quar-political union with idolaters. My lords, ter. My lords, he who brought forward you will observe that, in every thing I have this fearful imputation, alleged no proof said, I have argued on the assumption of of this tremendous denunciation-brought the author-that all papists are idolaters forward no text of scripture in evidence that is, men guilty of idolatry in the sight of his assertion, that a political union of God. But, my lords, though I have with idolatry was forbidden to christians assumed this as the assertion of the writer, by Almighty God. My lords, I cannot I do not believe it. I have sworn, indeed, describe to you the intense anxiety, the that the invocation of saints and the agony of mind, which this letter created sacrifice of the mass are idolatry, but in me. It alarmed my conscience and I have not sworn that all papists are unnerved my mind. Well, my lords, very men guilty of idolatry before God. My Soon appears a second letter, in which lords, I dare not believe it-if I did bethe writer states that it had been in- lieve it, I must at once exclude all Roman timated to him that a political union Catholics from the pale of salvation, and with idolatry was not so positively for- leave them to the uncovenanted mercies bidden and he addresses himself to prove of Almighty God. My lords, much of my that which he says requires no proof early life was spent in the company of namely, that political union with idolatry Roman Catholics of the Gallican Churchis forbidden by scripture. And what, my of men, my lords, virtuous and religiouslords, are his proofs? First, that the whose spirits have before this time, I trust, Jews, whenever they fell into idolatry, or passed into that kingdom, into which connected themselves with idolatry, re-those who are guilty of idolatry in God's ceived their punishment from God-which is perfectly true,-and if applied to this country, would, of course, expose us to God's curse, because we hold commerce with India and China-and in Roman sight shall never enter. My lords, some of their actions might be idolatrous,some, in my solemn judgment, partake of the nature of idolatry, and have a tendency to idolatry itself-but they were not wil |