a certain number of years (the number to be afterwards determined), be any increased valuation on account of these improvements. There was another subject on which a great deal of attention had been bestowed, he alluded to the subject of the area of taxation. The noble Lord then considered in detail the arguments generally urged in favour of a great reduction of the area of taxation. In his view there were insuperable objections to a general reduction of the area, particularly to its reduction to the limit of individual properties, which some persons advocated. At the same time there was no doubt but that considerable inconvenience was experienced from the size of many of the unions and electoral divisions. This inconvenience might be removed without departing very materially from the principle on which the area of taxation now rested. It had been suggested that mortgages and family settlements should be made liable to a rate. In his opinion, it was impossible to subject mortgages to such a charge; but with respect to family settlements the case was different. He did not think that a charge on family settlements should go beyond such as were already made; in other words, that it should not be prospective in its operation. He also thought that some provision should be made with regard to lands which had not been occupied for some time, and which had lain waste, with arrears of poor rates chargeable upon them. He was of opinion that it would tend to bring these lands again into cultivation if, for once, the arrears were remitted. Having thus alluded to the alterations which he thought might advantageously be effected in the Poor Law, the noble Lord VOL. XCI.

then came to the consideration of the subject more particularly brought under the notice of the House by the resolution which he had laid upon the table. The Consolidated Fund was not an inexhaustible source of supply wherewith to meet the destitution prevailing in some parts of Ireland; and there appeared to him to be no alternative but the adoption of his proposition, or permitting the poor in the bankrupt unions to take the chance of surviving to the ensuing harvest. The noble Lord then alluded to the grants which had been made for the relief of Irish distress

grants which he proceeded to show had not all been unproductively expended. At the commencement of this Session, a vote of 50,000l. had been asked for, in continuation of these grants. It had been urged that, if this system of grants was to be continued, Ireland should be made to contribute her part generally to the fund from which they were to be taken. Some proposed that taxation should be equalized between the two countries, when the necessary grants might justly be taken from the Consolidated Fund; others alleged that Ireland was not able to bear her fair share of general taxation, and that the only course was, instead of attempting to equalize taxation, to impose upon that country the lesser burden of contributing to the support of its own poor. To both propositions objections had been made. Ulster was represented as decidedly opposed to the policy of a general rate; and it had been said that the imposition of such a rate would bring ruin upon the best parts of Ireland. But how stood the case?

It appeared that in Ulster and in many parts of Leinster the burden [F]

of the poor rates was not so great as in many parts of England. This being the case it did not seem to be impossible that the part of Ireland alluded to should bear some further burdens for the sake of the bankrupt and distressed unions, without being ruined. There would be justice in some of the objections urged against such a proposal if Ireland were equally taxed with England. But so far from this being the case, Great Britain paid no less than 12,150,000l. of taxes, direct and in connection with the Excise, from which Ireland was wholly exempt. This consideration entirely altered the case between the two countries, in regard to the local taxation which it was now sought to impose upon Ireland for the sake of the distressed districts. He had no particular fondness for this mode of meeting the present difficulty; but if he were to withdraw his proposition, and substitute for it the extension of the Income Tax and other taxes to Ireland, the opposition would be still fiercer than that directed against the present proposition. They had been told on a former night that the proposal now made was regarded in some parts of Ireland as a matter of feeling affecting even the loyalty of a great province. But he did not believe that Ulster was fairly represented by those who alleged that her loyalty would be impaired by such a proposition. It had also been urged that a perpetual rate in aid would be the consequence of the proposal, if carried into effect, but this he did not believe, and briefly gave his reasons for not believing it. Having thus stated the views of the Government, with respect to the alterations requisite in the Irish Poor Law, and the ground on which he

rested his present proposition, the noble Lord stated, that if the House agreed to the rate proposed, he would feel justified in asking for some advance, which would enable the Government to meet such cases of destitution as might press for relief before the rate could be collected. He left the House, in conclusion, to decide whether or not it would adopt his proposition; if not, whether it had another to propose in its stead; or whether it would deliberately determine that no relief whatever should be extended to the suffering districts in Ireland.

Mr. Stafford would take every opportunity of recording his decided and earnest opposition to this measure. He wished the Government to point out to the House what amount it expected to realize from this sixpenny rate. He also wanted to know what was the amount of destitution which it would be necessary to relieve, and the extent of the resources which the Government believed to exist in the districts proposed to be relieved. He objected to the proposal, first, because it was unjust; secondly, because it would be difficult of execution; and, thirdly, because it would not answer its proposed object. The House seemed now agreed that the property in Ireland should support the poverty of Ireland. But the present proposal was but in partial accordance with this favourite maxim. In seeking to impose this rate, the Government had selected that kind of property which had recently been most oppressed and least profitable. When the noble Lord said that Ireland would resist the equalization of taxation, were it proposed as a substitute for such a rate, he begged to remind him

that the alternative had never been presented to her. He did not pretend to speak for Irishmen, but he himself was in favour of an equalization of taxation. If that were effected, the general funds of the empire would be chargeable with the responsibilities which the Government now sought to devolve exclusively upon the land in Ireland. Were relief in all such cases to be afforded from the general funds, a better scrutiny would be made of the manner in which the different grants were expended. The honourable Gentleman then dilated upon the necessity which existed for a general reduction of the area of taxation. What he wanted was that they should assimilate, as much as possible, the size of Irish electoral divisions to that of English parishes, so that whilst no electoral division should much exceed 2000, none should be under 1000 acres in extent.

Mr. John O'Connell would wait, before pledging himself to support the plan of the Government, until he ascertained whether those opposed to it had any better measure to propose. The honourable and learned Gentleman then proceeded to show that Ireland was the reverse of under-taxed, and that it was desirable that the money required for the relief of Irish distress should be raised upon the security of the revenues of the Irish Church, and by a tax upon absentees.

Lord Bernard condemned the proposal, and advised the Government to reverse its whole policy as regarded Ireland. It was notorious that there was a different system of valuation in every union in Ireland; and how were they to collect the proposed rate on a defective valuation?

Mr. Fagan supported the measure, not because he thought that Ireland did not contribute her fair share to the general taxation, but because it was necessary to save large numbers of the people from misery, privation, and death.

Mr. Bankes observed that Lord John Russell's statement had concluded with some ominous intimations. It now appeared that the noble Lord's plan was that England should advance the money and take her chance of securitythat security being a rate in aid, which some of the Irish Members said they could not pay, and others that they would not. The opposition side of the House sympathized as much with the distresses of Ireland as the supporters of Government. But they had to consider the distressed state of their own constituents before giving their assent to a proposition which involved further advances from the Consolidated Fund. He repeated, that if further advances were to be made, some better security must be found than the rate in aid, to which he, as at present advised, was opposed. He concluded by calling upon Sir Robert Peel and Sir James Graham to express themselves on so important a question.

Mr. Monsell was also opposed to the rate. With the existing valuation in Ireland, it would be most unjust. He would accept the Income Tax for Ireland in preference to the rate, provided the proceeds of the tax were, for some time at least, exclusively applied to Irish purposes.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer observed that no one could deny the existence of a strong necessity for looking to some other source than local resources for the means of averting starvation from many

As a

districts of Ireland. He thought that Mr. Bankes had called out a little too soon as to the large advances to be made on the security of the proposed rate. After de tailing the grounds on which he was averse to a Government scheme of emigration like that proposed on the previous evening by Sir John Walsh, the right honourable Gentleman proceeded to explain the mode in which the proposed rate would be collected. A national rate was the mode of raising the requisite funds which had been suggested by many parties connected with Ireland. It was for a temporary purpose that the rate was proposed; he never would have dreamt of proposing a national rate if he had believed that it would be permanent. temporary measure, it was desirable that it should be such as could be raised easily and cheaply. The proposed rate could be raised without costing one farthing. The machinery for its collection was already in existence and operation. He scarcely believed that Irish Gentlemen were in earnest when they proposed to substitute for such a rate an equality of taxation. The rate would produce sixpence in the pound without costing a single farthing for its collection. If they extended the Income Tax and other taxes to Ireland, they would have to create the machinery for their collection; so that, instead of sixpence in the pound, they might amount in all, with the cost of collection, to two or three shillings in the pound. In the present state of Ireland, this was a proposal which no one in his senses could seriously make. This the Irish Members opposed to the rate well knew, and, in proposing it as a substitute, the conviction

was forced upon him that what they wanted was to pay nothing at all.

Lord Lincoln would confine the few remarks which he had to offer to the House to the main question before it, the adoption or nonadoption of the proposed rate in aid. In considering this question, he started with an admission of the necessity which existed for affording extraneous aid to some of the Irish unions. It had also been pretty generally admitted that this extraneous aid should come from Ireland. Two questions then remained-first, should the required aid come from a part or from the whole of Ireland ?—and secondly, whether from the whole or from part, in what mode could it be most advantageously and most easily raised? The noble Lord then proceeded to detail the reasons which led him to the conclusion that the rate should be drawn from the whole of Ireland. The rate was demanded for two years, and Lord John Russell, in proposing it, had expressed his belief that the emergency to meet which it was proposed would not extend beyond that period. He much feared that the Government was too sanguine in entertaining such a belief. The expedient might be temporary, but he was afraid that the occasion which necessitated it would not be so. The rate was, in his opinion, a temporary ex

ient to meet a great and an increasing evil. Admitting the principle that the aid required should come from Ireland, he denied the ground upon which Lord John Russell had justified it the absence of equivalent taxation between the two countries. As to the mode in which the aid was proposed to be raised, he thought