jealousies between Protestants and Romanists would cease for ever, and it would not be necessary, for the safety of the empire at large, to curb Romanists by any exclusive law whatsoever."

On the supposed surrender of the rights of the parliament of Ireland, and the sacrifice of its independency, he was not disposed to dwell; the futility of the ar guments on which those objections were founded, was, in his opinion at least, fully developed on a former occasion: he would only say, that if a uniform coincidence should take place between the two legislatures, the independency of one or the other would be liable to be called in question; and that without such a coincidence the interests of the empire, and eventually the connexion between the two countries, might possibly be endangered.

Mr. Speaker said, he was not inclined to take up the time of the committee by a reference to the particulars of the union with Scotland, to the consequences which followed that measure, or to the arguments which they suggested on the present occasion. These topics had been already discussed, in a manner which could not fail to make a forcible impression on the House. He would only remark, that the animosity between the two nations, immediately previous to the union, was such as to have led them to the verge of hostilities; and that the grounds of distrust and complaint were thereby entirely done away. He also observed, that there were circumstances tending to facilitate an intimate connexion between this country and Ireland, and to incorporate the people of those kingdoms, which did not belong to the relation in which England and Scotland stood to each other. It would be recollected, amongst other illustrations of this observation, that here, and in Ireland, there was the same code of civil and criminal law; the same forms for the administration of justice; and for the purposes of legislation, the same succession to the crown; and the same established religion.

Having stated a few of the many considerations which, in his opinion, recommended this measure, he thought it incumbent upon him to notice some of the objections that had been made to it. Of these there were two, either of which, if valid, was fundamental and insuperable. The first was to the competency of the parliament of Ireland to accede to this measure the second relied on the final

adjustment, as it had been termed, of the year 1782. The one called in question the nature and extent of the authority of the parliament of Ireland; the other solemnly appealed to the good faith of the parliament of Great Britain. In viewing the question of competency, he said, it appeared to him that new doctrines of the present day were on the one side, and the sound principles, the theory and the prac tice of the British constitution, on the other. The highest legal authorities affirmed the extent and the supremacy of the power of parliament. It was sufficient to refer to the names of sir Edward Coke, sir Matthew Hale, sir William Blackstone, and many others, who, to say the least, have never been charged with a bias against the constitution and liberties of their country. That the functions of the legislature should be exercised on all occasions, and particularly on one so solemn and important as the present, with the utmost circumspection, would be readily and universally allowed. It must also be admitted, that parliament possesses the power, and the right, when called for by the obligation of providing for the public security and welfare, to new-model the constitution, and to alter the succession to the crown, and the established religion of these kingdoms: and he would then ask those to whose objections he was referring, where, if not in parliament, the means of carrying into effect such an arrangement as that which is now in contemplation, however necessary, and however approved, could possibly be supposed to reside? Not in the constituent body, for it would hardly be said that they had delegated a trust to their representatives, with a reservation in particular cases: not in the people at large, for such a supposition would imply the dissolution of the government; as it is an established truth, that, while the constitution exists, the only legitimate sanction of public opinion, and its only efficient authority, must be derived from the proceedings of parliament. "This is the place," sir William Blackstone observes, "where that transcendant and absolute power, which must in all governments reside somewhere is entrusted by the constitution of these kingdoms."

The attempts to preclude the discussion of the present subject, by the denomination of a final adjustment, which had been bestowed on the proceedings of the year 1782, struck him with more astonishment

than even those which he had read and heard against the sufficiency of parliament itself. If any importance were to be at tached to those words, he should have expected to find them solemnly recorded in acts of the respective legislatures, as the basis of the new relation which then took place between the two countries: what, however, was the fact? They are mentioned in a message from the king, and noticed in the addresses of the British parliament, and of the House of Lords in Ireland; but in the address of the House of Commons of that country, these words are not to be found. He observed, that as it had been the practice (and a judicious one it was, where there is a general concurrence of opinion), that the address should accord with the speech or the message from his majesty, the omission was remarkable. All, however, that had been said upon this part of the subject, appeared to him to be a dispute about words; for he was ready to acknowledge, that the British parliament would justly incur the imputation of a gross breach of faith, if they were to aim, either directly or indirectly, at the resumption of the power and supremacy which were then solemnly renounced: that the adjustment, as far as the independency of the Irish parliament was concerned, was really and absolutely final and conclusive; but if the argument, which was meant to be founded on these words, could be expected to avail, it must not only pass over the measure which took place in the subsequent year, and the resolution which immediately succeeded the act for the repeal of the sixth of George 1st, but it must contend that the true import of those words was so binding and peremptory, as to bar the possibility of adopting any ulterior arrangement of the nature of that to which they might be supposed to apply, however called for by the obvious interests, and the wishes of the inhabitants of both countries. Such a proposition could not be maintained, and if not, the argument with which it was necessarily connected, must, in his opinion, fall to the ground.

Mr. Speaker said, that some objections had been urged, the force of which he would by no means deny. He was thoroughly convinced that the House of Commons, as at present constituted, was a true and faithful representative of the people of Great Britain; that there their opinions and their wishes (he did not

mean the fluctuating and fleeting impressions of the day, but those which were the result of information and reflection) had their due influence, and were there fully and accurately expressed. He could not, therefore contemplate without anxiety the possible effects of such an alteration as the measure in question would produce. He was not, however, inclined to oppose a conjectural and contingent evil to that which was positive and immediate; or if he did, he must compare one, as cautiously as he could, with the other, and strike the balance. His apprehensions on this subject would be greater, were it not for the experience which has been afforded by the union with Scotland: but the pressing evils, which it was the duty of the House, if possible, to avert, were uppermost in his mind; and he was convinced, that every other remedy which had been suggested was fraught with consequences infinitely more injurious than any of those which even this circumstance, objectionable as he allowed it to be, was capable of producing. Of the danger to the commercial interests of this country, which had been adverted to, but which had not been much insisted upon, he said he entertained no serious apprehension. It was not true that Great Britain would necessarily lose what Ireland would gain. knew, besides the liberality and the good sense of the merchants and manufacturers of this country, if Ireland should cease to be a separate kingdom, they would not entertain a wish to withhold from her inhabitants a fair and equal participation of the advantages which were enjoyed by themselves; and they were fully aware, that whatever contributed to promote in. dustry and to produce tranquillity, in Ireland, had a tendency to give additional security and stability to the trading interests of Great Britain.

He

It had been asked, why, if this measure was brought forward with such obvious advantages, the adoption of it had not been sooner recommended? To which it had been justly and forcibly answered, that it should not be wondered at, if those, who are convinced that this close connection between the two countries is essential to the welfare of both, should be particularly solicitous to strengthen and confirm it, when the dissolution of that connexion is the avowed object of the intestine traitors in Ireland, and of the common enemy of the two kingdoms. He was, however, concerned to think, and to acknow

itself with the parliament of Ireland, it was impossible not to be aware of the opportunity and scope which would be afforded for misconception, suspicion, and misrepresentation. He trusted that we should adopt such resolutions as would rather tend to appease than to inflame; such as would be a pledge of our liberality and our justice: that we should manifest the earnestness and sincerity of our wishes to communicate to Ireland a full participation of all the advantages we enjoy; that we should prove ourselves desirous of considering the inhabitants of the two countries as one people, connected together by the closest ties under the same constitution, the same parliament, and the same king.

ledge, that precautionary wisdom had very little influence on the conduct of individuals, or of nations; an evil must in general have been painfully experienced before measures are taken to remove it, or to guard against its return: the abuses of power led to that establishment of our rights, and that security to our liberties, which took place at the Revolution. The weight of the public debt was becoming, at least in the opinion of many, intolerable to the subjects of this country, before efficacious measures were adopted for its diminution; and it was not until public credit was seriously reduced, and the objections to the plan of raising the supplies of the year, by the ordinary practice of loans, became almost insuperable, that the system of the present session of parliament was adopted; which, however burdensome, was a subject of general approbation, and a source of pride, of satis faction, and of confidence to a great majority of the people.. To this want of promptitude to provide against remote and contingent evils, one exception, indeed, presented itself to his recollection: it was, the measure adopted by the parliain 1791, which provided, that in case of future loans a farther sum should be borrowed to be applied as a sinking fund, for the purpose of gradually redeeming the addition thereby occasioned to the funded debt. Too much could not be said in commendation of the provident wisdom and justice of that measure, which is constantly employed in diminishing the pressure upon public credit, which arises from an increasing accumulation of the debt contracted since the commencement of the war; and in effecting an entire relief from its burthens perhaps to ourselves, but certainly, and at no distant period, to our descendants.

Some gentlemen had entertained an opinion which, he acknowledged, was entitled to serious attention and consideration; that, as the proposed measure had been discountenanced by the House of Commons in Ireland, to persist in the discussion of it here, would be to add to the irritation which unhappily prevails in that country. Such an effect he should sincerely lament, and should be sorry to have any share in producing. There were other consequences, however, which it was of the utmost importance to avert. If the parliament of this country were to abstain from declaring the conditions upon which it would be disposed to incorporate [VOL. XXXIV.]

He had understood, that, if the resolutions which had been opened should be agreed to, it would be proposed that they should be carried to the foot of the throne, accompanied by an address to his majesty. In that address he hoped, and was persuaded, that no sentiments or expressions would be introduced which jealousy might misinterpret, or malice pervert: that there would be no indication of a wish on our part to press the consideration of it upon the legislature of Ireland; and that no impulse would be given to it, but what it might derive from the free and unbiassed opinions, and dispassionate judgment of the parliament and people of that kingdom. The subject, he was convinced, would makes its way. To Ireland he was satisfied that greater advantages were now held out, than had ever been afforded by any single measure to any country; that it would greatly augment the resources, and place upon a rock that would be impregnable, as far as that term could be applied to any human establishment, the strength and security of the British empire. He would, however, acknowledge that his views and hopes extended still far-. ther, as he was thoroughly persuaded, that whatever had a tendency to consolidate and maintain the power and the independence of these kingdoms, was of the deepest importance to the best and most valuable interests of mankind. From these considerations, he gave the resolution his most cordial support.

The 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th Resolutions were then agreed to. The question being put upon the 6th resolution, which goes to grant an equality of privileges in trade and navigation, &c. to Ireland,

Mr. Pitt said, it was the duty of every [2 H]

member to attend to the peculiar interests of his constituents; but there was a paramount duty which called upon them still more forcibly to consult the general prosperity of the empire at large. When this subject was duly considered, it would appear that it was indifferent in what part of the empire any given manufacture flourished, especially if it was established in a place where it was most likely to flourish; and he was particularly happy in being able to say that the trade and manufacturers of this country were far from being in such an unprosperous condition as to make the present resolution give the least umbrage to the manufacturers of any great town. The only objection which he thought it liable to was, that it referred to a distant period what ought immediately to result from a complete union.

Mr. Carew, when the 7th resolution was proposed, objected to it as not precisely expressing that an identity of taxation should take place between the two countries.

Mr. Pitt said, that however proper it might be to fix at some distant period after the union such an identity of taxation, yet for the present it would be wise and politic not so far to offend existing local prejudices as to require immediately an equal portion of burthens to be sustained by Ireland, but to exact for the present only that proportion which Ireland hitherto paid in time of peace and

war.

The several Resolutions were then agreed to, and ordered to be reported to the House.

Feb. 14. Mr. Douglas reported the said Resolutions to the House. On the question, "That the said report be now brought up,"

Mr. Hobhouse rose to explain the motives which governed his vote that night. When he first heard that ministers were employed in forming a scheme of union between Great Britain and Ireland, it was no small degree of surprise to him that they should have resorted to an expedient, which went to the destruction of the rights of the Irish nation, and could not but meet with the opposition of people of all classes, except such as wished for a separation between the two countries. How praiseworthy had been the exertions of the people and parliament of Ireland in the suppression of civil discord. Had not the yeomanry of that country bravely stood

forward for the sake of maintaining the established constitution? Would they not think it an act of the basest ingratitude, to be called upon to surrender that established constitution, for which they had been ready to lay down their lives? What would be the effect of such a system on the minds of the reformers of Ireland? He meant not those hypocrites who, under the pretext of a parliamentary reform, really aimed at a revolution, but those who knew the value of their independent parliament, admired the true spirit of the constitution, and only wished to correct those abuses which had crept into its practice. Such would, by the system of a union, find their prospects blasted, and consequently feel great aversion to the measure. With respect to the Catholics, who consisted of three-fourths of the population of the country, they, of all others, must suffer most in consequence of a union. Many of the penal laws against them had, indeed, been repealed, but degrading incapacities, to which no man ought to be subject, until his opinions, of whatever nature they were, had shown themselves in overt acts of mischief, still remained. The elective franchise had, indeed, been granted to them, but the right of sitting in parliament had not been ceded, and thus the object they long had in view, and the attainment of which earl Fitzwilliam afforded them strong inducement to expect, would be entirely defeated by a legislative union. Was it not obvious then, that by all these different classes of men a union would be received, not merely with dislike, but indignation? Surely ministers, instead of bringing it forward, might have profited by the experience of what passed in the year 1759, when a report was circulated that a union between the two countries was intended. He had looked into Dodsley's Annual Register for that year, and there he found it stated, that, upon the surmise of a projected union, "a mob of many thousands assembled, broke into the House of Lords, insulted them, would have burnt the Journals if they could have found them, and set an old woman on the throne; that not content with this, they obliged all the members of both Houses whom they met in the streets, to take an oath, that they would never consent to such a union; that many coaches of obnoxious persons were cut or broken, their horses killed, &c.; that one gentleman in particular narrowly escaped being hanged,

parliament of that country had shown itself inadequate to the task of suppressing disturbances, and repelling attacks upon its constitution? He would ask, whether a legislature acting upon the spot, and tremblingly alive to every danger, were not more likely to discover treasons and conspiracies than a legislature in a distant country. It was contended also, that the government of Ireland was extremely vicious, and contained in itself the seeds of separation; that the government being in the hands of the Protestant minority, and the honours and emoluments of the church being in the possession of the same minority, the mass of the people must be always discontented; that there must be a continual contest between the

a gallows being erected for that purpose; | that the horse and foot were drawn out on this occasion, but could not disperse them until night; and that the next day addresses to the lord lieutenant were agreed to, and a committee of inquiry appointed." If such disturbances were caused by the mere report of a union, and when Ireland, not being in possession of an independent parliament, would not have had those sacrifices to make which she had at present, how much stronger would be her objection now! At that period the illustrious father of the right hon. gentleman (lord Chatham) was at the head of affairs, and in the zenith of his popularity; and from his wisdom and prudence it might be inferred, that, had such a measure been really intended then, he would not have persevered for a moment, if he had seen such an opposition to it as that which appeared on the present occasion.-Surprised as Mr. H. was at the measure, he was still more so at the mode of proceeding. Would it not have effectually prevented all possible altercation between the two parliaments, to have tried first how far it was agreeable to the Irish nation? Had the parliament and the country spoken in favour of it, then, and not until then, should it have been submitted to the consideration of the British parliament. But the right hon. gentleman had not only proposed it in England on the same day that it was brought forward in Ireland, but pledged himself that no consideration whatever should divert him from his favourite object. Was not this an imprudent declaration?-But the perseverance of the right hon. gentleman was still more extraordinary. As the parliament of Ireland had expressed its determination not even to enter upon the discussion, why persist in the measure? What did it signify to state terms to those who would not listen to them? He, for one, thought, that no such change as that now proposed ought to be adopted unless it should appear to be called for by a crying necessity. The argument insisted upon to show that necessity was this-that domestic traitors, aided by foreign force, had laboured, and still would labour, to destroy the connexion between the two countries, unless they were more closely cemented; that nothing would be effectual to that end, but a union. No man more than himself deplored the late calamitous events in Ireland; but he would ask, whether the

minority and majority. All this he was ready to allow: but he could not see how a union with this country was likely to remove the evil. How were the Catholics to be materially benefited? If they were only to be allowed to elect Protestant representatives in the imperial parliament, they would have less power than before; for they now have a share in sending 300 members to parliament; but then they would be confined to a far inferior number. If it were intended to give them the liberty of choosing representatives of their own religious persuasion, still that was short of what they looked to, and had been encouraged to expect; which was, to elect Catholics to serve in the parliament of their own country. They would also see, that by this measure the esta blished religion was still to remain in the hands of the minority, and be hurt by comparing this with what took place at the time of the union with Scotland, where the majority of the people had their will granted to them, as far as respected religion. Would not the Catholics of Ireland naturally hold this language?-"It is evident that in the formation of your religious establishments, you are not governed by your opinion of the truth of the doctrine; for if that were the case, you would not have permitted two different religious establishments, the one in Scotland, the other in England. By what principle, then, are you actuated? By the will of the majority. Why then are the Catholics of Ireland not to enjoy the same privileges, as the Presbyterians of Scotland?" This would be a fresh source of discontent; and thus the grounds for religious jealousies and feuds, so far from being weakened by this measure